How Digital Collections Transformation Is Changing Everything | Ep. 233

Adam Parks (00:08)

Hello, everybody. Adam Parks here with another episode of Receivables Podcast. Today, I'm here with my good friend Gordon Beck, and we have not done an episode in quite a long time together. I feel like we are living in very different worlds from the last time we spoke. But how you doing today, Gordon?

Gordon C. Beck III (00:24)

I'm doing great, Adam. So great to be on and thanks for having me.

Adam Parks (00:27)

I do really appreciate you coming on and sharing your insights today. For anyone who has not been as lucky as me to be your friend through the years, could you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and how you got to the seat that you're in today?

Gordon C. Beck III (00:38)

Sure. I started in the business as an agent when I was 19 years old. I fell in love with it. I woke up one day and I was nine years into the business at 27 and the CEO of my company. And basically, I built a good company for many years. But six years ago, I opened with my partners, Valor Intelligent Processing from scratch. So yes, that's a little bit insane. But from the licensing to

Everything involved with opening an agency, we did it in one year. And then about a year later, we got hit with COVID. So we've already been battle tested. My career has been foundationally based on people, motivation, brick and mortar, all the old school collection ways of being successful. And now it's the exact opposite. We're in a digital world where human capital is not only expensive, but not as necessary.

And I still love the business as the first day that I started. So to be able to survive six years from building a company from scratch and to be where we are, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Adam Parks (01:38)

I love it. Now, Valor has some really specific product expertise. Could you tell everyone a little bit about Valor Intelligent Processing and what it is that you do there?

Gordon C. Beck III (01:47)

Yeah. So initially Valor was going to be kind of a piggyback from what I knew in my previous life. And that was telecom. You know, that was the game plan and the goal. But you know, although telecom is a great industry, I realized that doing nothing but telecom would paint me into a corner. you know, hindsight, that was a great decision because ultimately all of the mergers that have gone and all of the, you know, brands that have come together at

it's really less than the amount of work that's in the telecom industry. So we branched out, we bought some companies, we started getting into municipalities such as tolling. And now we are in not just third party, but heavy in first party as well. So we're doing first party and third party and tolling telecom and finance. And now we're broadening kind of our horizons. We're not just one niche, we can do it all.

Adam Parks (02:35)

That diversification, I think is wildly important. And that's something that we saw in the TransUnion Debt Collection Industry Report in 2024 was looking at organizations that were heavy into third party collections and what they've learned about themselves in terms of being able to provide customer service in that more first party aspect. What a great opportunity to bridge relationships that you already have deep understanding of a particular product and a consumer that is partnered to that product.

But now you've moved into this digital world and I continue to shout from my podium that debt collection will be an e-commerce focused business in the next five to 10 years, if not sooner. But what are you seeing on your side of the world? We talk about digital agencies, but what does that really mean?

Gordon C. Beck III (03:21)

Well, I think it means staying in business. You know, I think ultimately when COVID happened and it opened up the borders and the boundaries of where people could recruit and hire, it made it very difficult for brick and mortar to be traditionally brick and mortar and competitive. When I could have my competitors coming into my market and hiring my people for $5 more to work from home, I realized very quickly that I had to get out the crystal ball and figure this thing out.

And, you know, there was other tell tale signs. It wasn't just the competition and the price of having, you know, brick and mortar or even now remote work from home agents, but it was also how the customers were behaving. know, RPCs down across the board. I don't think anybody will tell you differently. Less and less people answer the phone now. Lots of scams and things that we have to overcome in the digital realm, but overall customers feel very, very comfortable using this to communicate.

We've decided that we would not fight that, that we would go and do what we had to do to not only survive, but to thrive and to truly become a digital agency from cradle to grave.

Adam Parks (04:28)

When you talk about the mobile phone and nobody answering the phone anymore, I can definitely put myself in that boat. I've got I think three different apps to look for spam on incoming calls and the majority of phone calls that I get on any given day that are not pre scheduled meetings are going to be spam. So you've got Robokiller. Now you've got the Android platform has rolled out a an AI agent that answers the phone and displays that

transcription and now I believe it's iOS 26 that we're expecting in just a couple short months. That's going to have something similar as well that's going to create even more blockages to getting somebody on the phone. Now, if you can't get them on the phone, Gordon, what's the next step? How are you going to communicate with these consumers when the traditional methodology of picking up the phone and talking to them is not going to have that same.

Gordon C. Beck III (05:17)

I think agencies procuring their short codes so they're not in a situation of being blocked consistently using a long code and messaging with MMS, which allows you to do multiple things. mean, everybody knows what an MMS is. When you send an SMS, you're sending 161 characters or less. It's very generic and it looks like it could be somebody that could potentially be scamming you. But when you send an MMS with your company logo,

or if you want to attach your initial demand letter. And you can actually be personable in the message. And from the top down with 1500 characters explain, you know, that we're the agency representing our client. We're here to help you. And you leave a phone number and you leave a smart link that will go directly to their payment page. Then you have a really good chance because the people were everybody's used to communicating now digitally. And it's a lot less invasive and then getting a call from a collector that you do not know.

Talking about your personal financial problems that to a complete stranger, know, those days are starting to subside. We have noticed people communicating with our platform that we've had in our portfolio for a year and they've never once answered the call. We've sent text messages and MMSs and now people are starting to talk and they're starting to reply. And it just seems like this is a frictionless way for customers to avoid

what they would consider embarrassment or uncomfortability and not being completely blocked by the fact that they just simply don't answer a number that appears as unknown or they don't know or it's not in their phone, their address book, if you will. So I think digital messaging and I mean, email is still relevant. I think email is a heavy base of many good agencies out there, but I don't believe anything is as effective as sending MMS.

Adam Parks (07:02)

Well, email addresses, if I'm not mistaken, it's the average consumer has at least four email addresses and you don't know which ones they're checking at which times and it does start to create. There's a little bit more I'm gonna call it sub diffuse to that direct line of communication. But I do have a question for you because as I've talked with creditors and others, as as it relates to really the digital communication side of things, one of the things that I've heard

kind of rumblings about is that, you know, well, then the creditors are just going to send those messages directly, the creditors are just going to be able to get their digital strategies in order in the same way. I continue to argue back and say, you know, it's the same thing as with the phones, the debt collection agencies have a specialized

understanding of what that consumer is dealing with or how to communicate with that consumer. And that's what really makes that communication special when it's coming from that debt collector. It may be the third party voice that adds additional value. But what would you say to someone who says, we could just do that ourselves from a creditor perspective?

Gordon C. Beck III (08:02)

Well, first of all, you know, the biggest part about digital collections and being successful is the inventory management. That's a level of professionalism that we bring to the table that we've known for years that finds the unfindable, that digs up the loose change. That's not a, yes, anybody can send a text message, but are you sending it to the right number at the right time to the right person? Are you there to respond to that message? Are you're trained third party agents

that know how to handle these upset customers that can unravel a dispute and negotiate a payment plan that are there when the customer goes so far with digital and decides that they want to speak to a human. Be careful what you wish for. is, we, it's, takes an army to strategize and to know how we're going to tackle a portfolio. Um, my best collector is my executive that handles the strategies for my text messaging. You know, that, that, that one gentleman brings in 90 % of our money.

Yes, could they do it? But let me ask you this, you know, will they go to the next, the extra mile as a creditor and put in the frictionless payment processes that will allow the customer to pay with Apple Pay Google Pay, CashApp, Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, you know, will, will, will your big clients out there take these forms of payment now or anytime soon? Maybe Apple Pay, maybe Google Pay, but could you see him taking a CashApp? That's the things we do now as an agency that is changing the game and collections completely.

Adam Parks (09:29)

You're providing these, you're providing the creditor with an opportunity to work with someone who's truly got a specialized understanding of this distressed consumer, and what those personas or motivations of those individual consumer personas ultimately look like. What would you say to someone who looks at the digital process and says that it's, it's easy? I mean, it to send the right message to the right person at the right time. I mean, it sounds like, you know, sounds really easy.

but I know the realities of that are quite different. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of the challenges that you faced as you built out this intelligence and capability?

Gordon C. Beck III (10:06)

Well, you know, it kind of starts with, you know, the scripting, you know, being able to, you know, you have two different ways to send messages and soon there'll be a third. Some already see it on their phone and it's called RGS, but primarily you have SMS and MMS right now. SMS is easy. You could set it up 160 characters or less, but you really can't say much in an SMS. It's just too short. But being able to take and figure out what is working from a, just an actual verbiage perspective that's getting the customer.

That takes thousands of messages, tons and tons of data, tons and tons of time under our belt. We're becoming professionals at knowing not just when, where and how, but exactly what is being said to get the customers to engage. know, nothing in our business will ever be easy, you know, and sending a message seems like a said it and forget it thing. And I will tell you, Adam, I might've had the same mentality before we really dove into digital. How hard could it be?

Little did I know it is far more complicated than I could have ever imagined. knowing what's the right timing and cadence behind it. know, ensuring that when a customer gets an opt-in, a silent opt-in and they opt out, but what if they don't opt out and hit stop? What if they actually start a conversation? You have to be able to communicate with that customer. That is a communication to us. We're responsible for that. There's a lot more legwork that people give that credit for.

We will always need, I think agents, the human capital, because there's always going to be people that want to speak to a human. For many years, I was that guy. I did not want anything to do with the machine, but now the machines are so smart and easy and quick to deal with that times are just simply changing.

Adam Parks (11:48)

I agree with that. And one of the things you brought up about the content itself, because we always talk about the methodology of getting a text message out, or that we're going to how we're going to send it to the right person at the right time. But what about the quality of that message? And are we communicating the right thing in the right cadence, which is really a marketing problem?

And it feels like as debt collectors, we've learned a lot from the marketing side of the world and starting to apply that into how we're going to communicate with consumers. Because if you're heavy in telecom, for example, every consumer is on that mobile device. And on that mobile device, more often than not, we've looked at web traffic over the last couple of years and seen it go from 40 % mobile to 80 % mobile. I mean, I've got some agencies that are showing 90 % mobile or greater

in terms of the consumers that are coming to their website. You've also brought up the frictionless payments. And so how can you get that consumer from I found you to I paid you in the shortest period of time? What kinds of strategies have you deployed to shorten that life cycle between I found you and I paid you?

Gordon C. Beck III (12:54)

You know, just like when we were calling people outright old school style. When you talk to and initially gauge a customer, their guard is up. It's a fight. And it's not because they dispute the bill or doesn't have the money. They're embarrassed. You're a strain. Our job is to do what we used to do on the phone and still do, but you know, with the digital communications and that's to get the customer to turn, take the guard down. You know?

Gordon C. Beck III (13:18)

For that fight to become a discussion, that discussion to become a business deal. But you have to use the type of verbiage that makes them realize that we are not the big, bad, terrible collectors, that we are genuinely here to help. And then when they do engage your links, that you have a quick, fluid, and easy process, that when they click that link, that boom, they're on their account, they're ready to pay, and they can choose which any of these digital processes that they're used to and comfortable with,

And it's been amazing seeing just how many customers see the Apple logo and don't think twice, you know, and pay without even that's the level of respect you get when you offer those types of payment payment solutions, because not everybody can just take Apple Pay. But, you know, as you to get them to do it, to get them to engage, to get them to click the link or pick up the phone and call. They have to see verbiage in that MMS that makes them feel comfortable that you're genuinely there to help.

And then when they do engage, you do exactly what you say you're going to do in the message and you help them and give them an experience they do not expect in collections.

Adam Parks (14:25)

Well, they originated their account, I mean, especially with the types of products that we're talking about here, the telecom products and even the municipalities and tolling. I've never once called Florida Sunpass. My entire relationship with them has been digital. Pretty much my entire relationship with my mobile phone company is also digital. So I go into their portal, I'm managing it there. And I have to assume that a lot of other consumers are doing the same thing.

Gordon C. Beck III (14:37)

Nope. Yep.

Adam Parks (14:50)

I think it became more prevalent or at least we started to identify it more as debt collectors when we started looking at fintech and all of the fintech origination and how many credit cards and other things are all originated online now. So that consumer really is looking to extend the same digital experience that they had with that original creditor into the debt collection space. So they're looking for the same things. Can I see my balance? Can I see these statements? Can't and what is that consumer journey look like through a frictionless port?

Gordon C. Beck III (15:11)

No question.

Yeah, I mean, it's exactly that. It's giving them exactly that. I mean, we started text messaging just over two years ago, but we began with the digital payment options about 18 months ago. 90 % of the money we collect as an enterprise is coming digitally. We're never speaking to the customer. So obviously we've made it so simplistic and so easy that customers are doing it. But you also know that in tolling,

You have a lot of perpetual customers. These invoices are coming in monthly for the, you know, you know, from dealing with Sun Pass and et cetera, you know, once they're comfortable, then it's just like you're the creditor. And that's what's essentially happened at Valor. We've essentially become an extension of the creditor that makes them comfortable, that gives them peace of mind. And they could do it all without ever picking up a phone, without ever disclosing any embarrassing personal information to a collector they don't know. But.

Knowing still that if they have a problem concern issue complaint worry, whatever that all they have to do is ask for an agent You know and and and they'll get one so, you know so far so good It's worked out really well But one thing that we've learned about our portal and how we pro it's just got to be easy You know customers want simple they want easy and most importantly they want fast Deliver that yeah hundred percent

Adam Parks (16:41)

Well, creating that digital trust.

It's a whole new world creating trust over the phone was a skill set that I think we've developed as an industry over time. And now having to create that same trust digitally is real similar to the same kind of digital trust that you apply to a Google and Apple and Amazon.

And so what can we do to start learning from these types of e-commerce operations in building our customer journeys and being able to communicate with those consumers? Because if they've gone to the portal, they looked at their balance, they didn't make a payment, now might be the time to be reaching out again. And what does that start to look like as we start building out these more complex journeys for the consumer so that we can...

get to them at the time and place in which they're most likely to make that payment and reduce after Reg F, the number of communications that are outbounding. If we've only got seven and seven to communicate, we need to make sure that each and every one of those individual communications is as pinpoint accurate as possible.

Gordon C. Beck III (17:41)

100 % agree and time takes time, but the key is data. There's so much data that you wouldn't think to look at that you got to look at and uncover and really make decisions, you know, because who is making payments is one thing, but who is making a $10 payment? Who is making six months worth of payments? Who's comfortable to set up those payments in advance like that? Who's taking advantage of the settlement? Who's ignoring it outright? Why is that happening? Are you following up on those? I mean, you

Gordon C. Beck III (18:09)

The data is overwhelming and it's going to take a lot of time to really unravel. But what we've noticed is that every client's customers behave a little bit differently. You know, so it's not a set it in, forget it on an enterprise level. This is going to be on a client level for sure. And then you can break it down even further on demographics and balance and age and all kinds of things. But my biggest advice for anybody jumping into the digital journey and going to do something very similar to this where

This becomes the primary focus of their, how they collect money, you know, is you got to have the amount of bandwidth from a data perspective to analyze it and to make decisions on it. The lessons that we've learned in just a short year and a half is, but we're learning new things every single day. And eventually I'd like to think that we'll perfect it, you know, and we'll have a really awesome process. But along the way, the data will tell you everything you need to know.

from whether or not your timing is right, your verbiage is right, your portal is fluid. It tells you what you wanna know. You just have to have the wherewithal and the personnel to dig in deep and put the puzzle together, if you will.

Adam Parks (19:05)

I think the consumer is an ever changing target. And I don't know that we'll ever truly perfect it, but I think we'll perfect the criteria by which to make these decisions and by which to measure these types of challenges. And that criteria will continue to evolve as well. But the more that we can understand how to make the right decisions or how to draw conclusions from the data sets, I think it puts us in a better position. Now, one of the other things that you had talked about was really the coupling with the individuals. Sometimes they want to talk to an agent on the phone.

but 88 % of companies are having trouble hiring, 81 % are having trouble retaining the people that they are able to hire. So we've talked about, through my podcast, we've talked a lot about really remote work and we've talked a lot about BPO services, but that's kind of a challenge when you're working directly for the creditors. You kind of got to own that part of the world. Talk to me about how you've addressed.

having those live agents on the phone and available to be able to address consumer concerns when they get someone who's a little more old school or has questions and wants to address it over the phone.

Gordon C. Beck III (20:20)

Based on the unit yield and the type of work that we do, we had to go offshore. You know, that was a goal of ours three years ago. We made it come true about 24 months ago. We purchased a couple of companies, one in South Africa, one in Cape Town and one in Papanga, Philippines. And we've had a great deal of success because we could basically, it's like one to seven US agents to what we're seeing over there. And that gives us the ability to where we can put them on outbound, for example.

easily handling the inbound and do it in an affordable manner. You you don't want the expectation from a performance perspective to be any different than what we see each and every day and have seen in the U.S. But the truth of the matter is, whether it's in South Africa and there's somewhat of a heavy accent or in the Philippines where it is their second language, the customers that we're dealing with, they recognize this is somebody in another country.

having and teaching them, you know, our culture and our ways of communicating with customers, in a more candid fashion is, something that we're doing every day to try to make it to where that experience is not that way for customers and that they would pay and trust to pay our agents overseas just as much as they would. It's always going to be a work in progress, but from an affordability perspective, when you're doing a lot of your heavy lifting with digital, you want a solid staff.

to handle all of the ones that don't or either don't feel comfortable. What you're going to see is people were example, they try to make a $1 payment and it says you need to call into the office, right? You're going to have that just simply by that default on your setup. And that's just an example. But you know, the way we found to be able to do both is by being able to have a good contingency in offshore that is affordable, well-trained discipline.

Gordon C. Beck III (22:07)

We've had a great, great, huge amount of success in teaching them how to do it our way and seeing them from where we were two years ago to now. It's just night and day. Now I'd put some of our offshore agents up against any of our very best US agents without even batting an eye, but it wasn't always that way. But just...

Adam Parks (22:25)

No, I think if you if

you look back over, you know, the last whatever 20 years, I think that BPO kind of got a bad rap during COVID, it really picked up significantly. And now the expectations have changed dramatically to where when I look at an offshore operation versus an onshore operation, I measure them the same way. And that wasn't always the case. But I think some of that comes down to work ethic, and desire and drive. And the harder it's become to hire people in the United States, and the more that

Gordon C. Beck III (22:48)

Yes.

Adam Parks (22:54)

prices have really just jumped beyond their economic reasonableness within a small margin operation, especially if you're dealing with smaller unit yields in lower balance accounts, you have to find those efficiencies in order to create that positive environment, still be able to provide the highest level of customer service to the end use consumer. And I think that there's some interesting challenges that come along with that, but.

If you can't hire in the US, you've got to expand your labor pool somewhere and you can either expand it around the United States, which is extremely expensive, because now you're talking about offices in multiple locations and depending on where you're based. I know you in Jacksonville, there's a lot of collectors in that area, but I'm in Port St. Lucie, Florida. There's not a lot of collection activity around here. So to put up an office here and to think that I could hire people locally is just absolute insanity. So being able to leverage other...

Gordon C. Beck III (23:23)

Yes.

Yep.

Adam Parks (23:46)

labor pools and to be able to build on that because the skill sets have increased pretty dramatically. And like we said, you can kind of hold people accountable to those higher levels of performance than you ever could before. I don't know what happened during COVID, but I felt that lift during that time period. And I think others have too. Is that your experience?

Gordon C. Beck III (24:06)

Yeah, I think so. I think that, you know, but I can't really put a finger on the exact reason why, you know, ⁓ but I could tell you this, you know, and that's just looking to the future, right? In our conversation, we talked, you know, really unknowingly about the journey that we've taken so far and how we got there. But I think that that's the one missing piece of the puzzle is, you know, you have US based agents, you have your offshore agents.

Adam Parks (24:12)

Neither.

Gordon C. Beck III (24:32)

But what about the AI agents now? Are they going to be the missing piece? Is that what it's going to take to be completely digital? You've got the digital communication piece. You've got the digital payment platform where you're taking all the modern payments. But if they're calling in and we have our offshore reps taking these calls and we have a bunch of agents offshore, even though it's far cheaper than the U S there's still a significant expense with volume in doing that. Having a

Gordon C. Beck III (25:00)

knowledgeable, where this technology can answer maybe 90 to 95 percent of the customers questions and sound just like me and you sound right now talking to each other. I think that that's the missing piece, Adam. I think that that that is the piece that you talked about e-commerce five years, you know, it may be the end of this business as we know it, but it could be a very exciting new way of doing it. But I think, you know, it'd be

ill prepared not to prepare for what could be coming in that regard because some of the technologies I've seen from experts in our industry that are creating these products, I'm blown away by what I've heard and seen so far.

Adam Parks (25:40)

I think debt collection will continue to evolve. I believe that the AI agents will help to close some of the gaps that exist today, but I don't ever think it's gonna be a fully automated process. I think there's always gonna be the person who yells operator, operator, operator, right into the phone and they're looking for that live interaction with somebody because their questions go beyond it. Now, you know, could talk about some, we can go way down the AI rabbit hole here and talk about it from that perspective, but I always look at it like this.

Gordon C. Beck III (25:53)

Yeah, always.

Adam Parks (26:07)

The creditors are always trying to improve, but their focal point as a business is always on new originations, lending money and in servicing those accounts. I think that debt collection continues to be a byproduct of that business. And I don't know that it ever becomes fully engaged directly from the creditors. I think that that specialization of the technology of the processes and strategies

and of those specially trained people to be able to actively work those accounts and provide that level of customer service because debt collection has, as much as it's becoming an e-commerce business, it's also becoming a customer service focused business. And we can see that in the expectations that the creditors have of their vendors these days because a CSAT score and the bottom line dollar performance of an agency,

it used to be all performance and then it was compliance over performance and now it's customer satisfaction above all. And I think that balance between those three areas has been difficult for some organizations. But I do think that's what the future of the debt collection industry looks like.

Gordon C. Beck III (27:05)

above all.

No question. I've been approaching the industry that way for years simply because I always believed that, you know, the positive approach to collecting debt was the right way. It was the most effective way. But now more than ever, you know, when you do see clients asking, you know, to see your internal scores like a CSAT score, we're doing plenty of customer service sales retention.

way beyond third party collections, but third party collections is fundamentally trained by the people in our organization that know and train customer service. It's all about building rapport with the customer, making them feel, you know, the trust is there and then following up and giving them an experience that mirrors, you know, that initial communication and that initial impression. It is 1 million percent of customer service business and those that take that approach

We'll do far better. The days of caveman collections are so long gone. It's all about, you know, brand reputation, brand image. We have clients that will literally tell us we do not care about collecting the money. Just don't get us a lawsuit. Don't get us a complaint. You know, and I believe in that. I've always believed in the positive approach to collections will always win the day and to see it come full circle now and to be

foundationally what almost all of our clients are looking for. It goes to show that all along those and many agencies, not just me, not just people, know, many agencies took the approach of customer service first, customer experience above all else. The money will come. I think it was the right approach because here we are and nothing's more important. You know, nothing.

Adam Parks (28:53)

I think the creditors have seen that for some time. I think they want to be able to revive those consumers into being, you paying customers again, and in the days of just collect it and forget about that and write that person off forever, I think are over, especially when it comes to called subprime lending or those commoditized type services that every consumer depends on their mobile phone, their ability to go through a toll.

And all of those types of things, it's not just about lending anymore. I think a lot of businesses are lending as a byproduct of their ability to sell their generalized products. And that creates these new challenges, but also new opportunities for the debt collection industry to educate those that are lending or inadvertently lending into how to provide that level of customer service with a distressed consumer.

Gordon C. Beck III (29:44)

It's amazing that you're saying that because we're working on a couple of programs without being too specific, which is basically like a resell. You know, we're trying to recover the balance and then resell them back to said platform. You would have never seen that 10 or 15 years ago. The truth is, you know, the growth of these organizations, when they have the write-off and it goes to collections, to them, it's all about net new. Who can we bring back? Who can we keep? The competition is wild. In the telecom arena,

Adam Parks (29:52)

Get them back on.

Gordon C. Beck III (30:13)

20 years ago, Adam, there was a company, I believe the name of it was Lightbridge, where it was not like a credit bureau, but it was a way where they would be able to communicate with each other and determine if you owed a bill to the other company and then making them pay that before. Now, they don't, not only do they not care if you owe somebody else, but they'll take your number and run with it, whether you pay them or not, you know, and give you five lines. It's vicious cycle, vicious circle, but, but you know, the opportunity now

Gordon C. Beck III (30:41)

there are opportunities beyond collections to do value add services for our clients that do go into retention and sales. And we're already starting to see it, you know, either retaining the customer or getting them back is paramount. And you're going to see more and more of that. And I think as, as the clients become comfortable with it and it becomes kind of a way of life in our business.

Adam Parks (31:03)

The cost of acquiring a new customer is one of the greatest costs of any business, especially if you're dealing with something that's got lower margins or a lower balance level. So it's something that we just have to consider going forward.

Gordon C. Beck III (31:17)

Yeah, it is. We should be able to use our platform to do many other things. You know, we can capitalize our skill set and what we know and what we've learned about the customer. I've always thought that, you know, the additional services, what else can we add? What can we do? And people have gotten really creative along the way. I mean, there were some agencies that built out financial institutions to offer loans to the customer to be able to pay their debt and they get it on both ends, you know, and that was

you know, early on, I knew a few agencies that had done that and are still doing that today. But we have, we do have a special skill set in this business in this industry that can go far beyond just collecting a bill, you know, and there are services that we can offer and things that we're willing to render that could help our clients in a major way, you know, so I agree with you that if I'm a sales guy in this business, and I guess I am by default, you know, I'm selling all the other things that we can do to our existing clients and take it to market with new clients.

Gordon C. Beck III (32:13)

because we could certainly do a lot more, like I said, than just, you know, hand out a smart link or answer a phone call. You know, I agree with that.

Adam Parks (32:21)

Gordon, I absolutely enjoy every conversation that I have with you. Your insights are just so spot on, especially for where we are as an industry right now. Any final words for our audience?

Gordon C. Beck III (32:33)

My only final thing is, know, I'm the last person in the world. If anybody that knows me in this industry, I have always been about people. I have always been about what we can do with brute force and brick and mortar. you know, opening and starting my own collection agency for scratch and then learning that it's about survival and success and not to necessarily fight where everything's going, but to learn it and understand it. My advice would be don't fight against what's happening. What's happening is real.

Gordon C. Beck III (33:01)

It's a digital world. Customers want digital and easy ways to communicate. They want easy and easy ways to pay. know, and I'm sold. I'm sold on the future. And, you know, it's going to be fun to watch as my colleagues in the industry continue to go that route to where are we going to be in five years, 10 years? Get out your popcorn. It's going to be fun to watch.

Adam Parks (33:20)

I think we're gonna have to keep talking about it, Gordon, because I feel like you're at the right on the edge of that, that wave, and you're not gonna let it crash over, you're gonna ride that wave, which I always can appreciate. for those of you that are watching, if you have additional questions you'd like to ask Gordon or myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube, and we'll be responding to those. Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, you can leave those in the comments below as well. And hopefully I can get Gordon back at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great

industry. But until next time, Gordon, I really do appreciate all your insights. This has been a great discussion.

Gordon C. Beck III (33:52)

Yeah, likewise, Adam. Anytime. Thank you.

Adam Parks (33:54)

And thank you everybody for watching. We'll see you all again soon. Bye everyone.