Adam Parks (00:08)
Hello everybody, Adam Parks here with another episode of Receivables Podcast. Today I'm here with a very well known industry veteran, Mr. DJ Perry, who is with Alvaria, here to talk to us, really not about technology today, but to talk to us about people. As DJ and I were hanging out at the ACA annual conference this year in Louisville, we started talking about the value of the people that underlay all of this technology and just how important that is and his passion for the people throughout his career inspired me to want to do this episode together to learn a little more from his experience. So DJ for anyone who has not been as lucky as me to become your friend through the years, can you tell everyone a little about yourself and how you got to the seat that you're in today?
DJ Perry (00:55)
Yeah, thank you, Adam. Really appreciate that intro. Yeah, I don't know if I'm all as well known as you say, but I have been in the industry quite some time. I started back in 2010. So right before I joined CBE, I was subcontracting floor installation, and it was just a really slow winter. And I'm like, I gotta do something. And I just fell in love with debt collection.
Right through training, it was pretty obvious to me I was gonna make a career out of it. And all different portfolios, debt types, worked my way into operations management, and that's where I'll be pulling some of my knowledge from on this podcast. And then jumped over to the vendor side, sold some data and analytics went over to interactions, got to know conversational AI through both them and skit AI and now I'm here at Alvaria.
Adam Parks (01:47)
And talk to us a little about Alvaria and what it is that you do there.
DJ Perry (01:52)
Yeah, so Alvaria is the merger of Aspect and Noble. Both of those companies are pretty well known in our space and things have been shaking up a lot over the last five to 10 years. But I got a phone call from the former chief sales officer at Interactions. He said, I'm with Alvaria. We have a collections platform. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I've never heard of Alvaria. And he's like, Noble. I was like, oh, Noble.
DJ Perry (02:20)
started on that dialer. I fell in love with that dialer and it was amazing. So was like, let's do this. And that's really what we've been up to for the last couple of years is just getting everything kind of polished, up to date, ready to go and back out to the market so that there's an enterprise level dialer option for those that maybe need one.
Adam Parks (02:22)
You Well, that sounds exciting. And I feel like you and I are going to have to dig into that deeper on a later podcast. But the conversation that really got me excited at the ACA conference was talking about what happens behind the people. And I had recently done an episode with Aristotle Sanglang talking about the rainmaker assessments and what that looked like. And immediately you and I struck up this whole conversation around. How are we gonna find the right people? How are we going to filter the right people? And then how are we gonna get them up to speed and actively engaged in adding value to both their careers and our businesses? So high level, I guess to start, let's start at that 30,000 foot level. Talk to me about your experience and kind of the framework that you've been using to be successful in identifying the right people.
DJ Perry (03:32)
Yeah, and that's a big question too because identifying the right people as a manager could be trying to find the right people for your team. In sales, finding the right people could be trying to find a good fit for your product and service. There's so many different ways that you can frame that finding the right person. So I guess the framework that I am really passionate about is just whatever model it is that you want to use. The disk assessment is one that I'm
DJ Perry (04:00)
you know, very familiar with, and it's a four personality type model. There's several of those out there. They're all relatively the same, defining each personality relatively close. And then, you know, trying to figure out what kind of person you need to fit the role, what kind of team dynamics that you're gonna wanna have, maybe gaps that you need to fill, and then Strengths Finder is another big one too.
DJ Perry (04:22)
If you want to get into tactfully building teams and really figuring out who's good at what, then there's really no better replacement than Gallup's Strengths Finder Assessment, which identifies your top five strengths. And then you just kind of know what everybody is good at. And you can start delegating and pushing those types of things to those folks.
Adam Parks (04:40)
My internal question is always what brings you joy in your current role? And the reactions that I get to that I think generally at least helps me find not necessarily their strengths, but where they're finding the most enjoyment in their job, which generally has fallen to be somewhere around their strengths, far less of a scientific method, I think, than you've approached previously. But what's the you know, for those that have not started to deploy any kind of assessments or really filtering other than the old school, let me look at 10,000 resumes. What's that first step look like in a journey of a thousand?
DJ Perry (05:17)
Yeah, so I guess from a lens of, okay, here I have a team, or I have a stack of resumes, what have you, it's just being able to pick up on certain patterns, if you will. One of my top five strengths is individualism, and so I'm the last person that would say, well, if you're this thing, then you fit in this box, and therefore all these things tend to be true.
Adam Parks (05:41)
be true.
DJ Perry (05:42)
It goes without saying, everybody is unique and different. That said, there is a lot of similarities and things that you can glean from these assessments and personality types. And then what makes it kind of cool is you don't have to go through these full blown assessments to be able to understand people. So if we take the four main personality types, we'll use the disc ⁓ letters, so D-I-S-C.
Adam Parks (05:58)
understand people. So we take the four main personality types. We'll use the disc letters, so D-I-S-C.
DJ Perry (06:09)
So if you have D is the dominant,
Adam Parks (06:09)
if D is the dominant.
DJ Perry (06:13)
dominance. So those folks are going to be more direct, more firm, strong-willed, results-oriented, Then the I... Yeah, the I, yeah, exactly. My way or the highway, natural leaders. I'm sure we all know some folks that are high Ds. And then the high I is influence, and those folks are going to be outgoing, they're going to be enthusiastic, very optimistic.
Adam Parks (06:20)
Your type a personality
DJ Perry (06:39)
social butterflies, if you will. The S is steadiness, and these folks are very even keeled, very patient, very accommodating, very humble. And then the C is conscientiousness, and those folks are a little bit more analytical, reserved, precise, risk adverse, systematic. And so you can be more than one of these things.
DJ Perry (07:02)
one thing at work and one thing at home. The closer you are to the way you are at work and home is just basically saying you're authentic when you're at work, but some people do have different personality types at work. So when you start to really understand those individual personality types, then you can start to pull out different traits. So for example, with my team, I would do a small little assessment and I would just quickly identify
Adam Parks (07:14)
So when you start to really understand those individual personality types, then you can start to pull out different traits. So for example, with my team, I would do a small little assessment, and I would just quickly identify.
DJ Perry (07:28)
who fits into these individual boxes or tends to be stronger in these areas, I would build seating charts around it. ⁓ Like if you get two folks that are high D, they might butt heads quite a bit. You get people, know, two high Is they can work together for hours and get nothing done, but they had the most fun, they the best time doing it, right? Because it's just, they're just talking and talking and talking.
Adam Parks (07:35)
Sure. you
DJ Perry (07:54)
So you might not want to sit those folks together or you might want to be a little bit mindful of sending those two folks off to do a project. But you get somebody that is a high S and you put them in the middle of a couple of folks that are high D, high I. Suddenly they're kind of bringing a little bit of an even keel vibe and kind of helping with the melody and the rhythm of the team.
And the high C's, the analytical folks, they tend to see things very black and white. if you don't see things that are black and white, it's important to know those on your team that do, because they're going to hold you accountable in a very black and white manner. if you can stay ahead of that and you can know that about somebody, then you can go out of your way and work a little bit extra hard to make sure that you're following through on little details. Because if you don't, it's really going to bother.
Adam Parks (08:35)
can stay ahead of that, you can know that about somebody, then you can go out of your way and work a little bit extra hard to make sure that you're following through on little details, because if you don't, it's really gonna bother
DJ Perry (08:45)
folks that are high C. As an example, I had a collector who was very high C and I said I was gonna bring her a box of Kleenex and I got wrapped up and I just didn't end up finding a box of Kleenex, I never did. And that took a hit with her because I said I was gonna do something, I didn't do it. And it's like not a
Adam Parks (08:45)
folks that are high C. Like, as an example, had a collector who was very high C, and I said I was gonna bring a box of Kleenex, and I got wrapped up, and I just didn't end up finding a box of Kleenex, I never did, and that, that like took a hit with her, because I said I was gonna do something I didn't do, and like, not,
DJ Perry (09:04)
big deal to me and some other folks, but to some folks, it's a big deal. So just understanding those.
Adam Parks (09:10)
So understanding those personalities around you, is there a perfect team mix? there like a is there a perfect recipe that you're looking for? Is or is a lot of it still from the hip and you're using these assessments to just try and be able to quantify the qualitative?
DJ Perry (09:29)
Yeah, I mean, you never really know what you're gonna get and skill levels are gonna be the same, so it's a little dangerous to say, okay, I'm gonna fill out my entire team based off of personalities alone. You're gonna have a mix and somebody can be high D but also high I. And so you don't necessarily really know. But that being said, I mean, we used to collaborate with managers across dozens of teams and
DJ Perry (09:51)
when you start talking about making moves or you start talking about hiring people, you can go, okay, well, I'm gonna need somebody that kind of brings the team down and kind of is a little bit more even keel or maybe opposite. Maybe you need a go getters, a spark, some energy. Maybe you're looking for that high high somebody who's gonna be a little bit more verbal and kind of motivate and kind of be a little bit more optimistic. Or maybe you just need leaders. Maybe there's, you just don't have any leaders on your team and you're like, I gotta find somebody or.
DJ Perry (10:19)
Or maybe you have, you know, nobody really cares about the individual compliance rules and you just need somebody that's really going to be able to wrap their head around all these new compliance rules and things that maybe you're rolling out like a new speech analytics or QA platform and you're like, okay, I need somebody that's high C who can really, you know, take this project on and understand all of those individual requirements and make it happen. So I guess that's kind of the frame that I would use.
Adam Parks (10:45)
How early in the process should you start thinking about these kinds of things? Is this happening during the hiring process? And even if you didn't start it during the hiring process, is this something that you can still use with your existing team?
DJ Perry (10:59)
Yeah, yeah, I think this is definitely something you can use with your existing team. I think that this is probably something that's underdone. You know, if operations is really working hand in hand with HR and understanding the requirements. I mean, look, it's tough to find agents these days. So I'm sure HR is like, hey, got to get we got we got to find 30 people. They're probably not going out and trying to find, you know, only S' or there only I's to make the the COO happy.
DJ Perry (11:27)
Once you get training class hired and once you start looking at which team are they gonna go to, there's also the dynamic between the agents and the managers or the managers and the directors, ⁓ understanding who's gonna work well with who and placement and that sort of thing. So I think never soon enough is an answer to that, but also under the
DJ Perry (11:50)
realization that you have to be realistic under the demands of HR and the hiring tasks that they're being given.
Adam Parks (11:57)
Well, like life is never easy for HR, but I do see this increase in a need for hiring. I still hear everybody talking about the difficulties and 2024 we saw in the TransUnion Debt Collection Industry Report that 88 % of companies were having trouble hiring and 81 % were having trouble retaining the people that they were actually able to hire. Now that's a, that's a big number in terms of struggles. So that
DJ Perry (12:18)
Yes.
Adam Parks (12:23)
That definitely is at the forefront of the mind of agencies. And I know that it applies to the collector level, but I would think that this type of assessment might even be more impactful as you start climbing up the ranks of an organization and looking at all of those different options. Because very rarely do we prepare people for management before putting them into a management role and maybe starting to look through or being able to better understand who we have and what the chessboard looks like. Because as executives, we're playing a giant game of four dimensional chess. There's all kinds of different moving parts to our business, but I think understanding the players is like understanding how the pieces move on the board and how you can deploy them to the benefit of your organization, to achieve the ultimate objective of quote unquote winning. You know, how do you have you looked at or have you used this at different layers of the organization or have you mostly been focused on the application to the collector?
DJ Perry (13:27)
I think you're hitting a nail on the head. I think the best organizations out there, and I was very fortunate to be a part of an amazing organization that really thrived. had a whole team dedicated to organizational development. so it was, all these assessments, grow, learn as much as you possibly can. And that was amazing. And it was absolutely applied from the agent level all the way up to the executive leadership team. It's incredibly important, as you said, to know the players on the board and for everybody to just know who they're working with and to know who's strong at doing what and how to best communicate and how to best motivate and what to do, what not to do. And it really brings out the best in everyone. it also, think of it as really handing somebody a map. That's a lot easier than just trying to fumble your way through, trying to figure out where you're going.
DJ Perry (14:13)
I use that analogy with my 12 year old a lot because sometimes he doesn't want the map. Okay, well, if I just set you off and said go to this city, how long do think it would take you to get there without a map? And then he's like, okay, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. And that's what it is. It's just the more you can get to know about yourself and your teammates and the personality types around you, the more successful the team is going to be.
And so we've talked a little of how those different personality types ultimately come together and you know how you can start to optimize all of that. As I start going down that path as an organization, you know, have you seen any correlations to like this group belongs in accounting? This group does really well in HR, right? Have you started to see some of that unfold as you've looked at the results of these types of assessments?
DJ Perry (15:01)
Yeah, that part's actually kind of fun because a big part of management was always building the bench strength. a lot of the internal promotion, getting to know, I don't know the percentage, but I'm sure you talk to a lot of folks, I certainly do, folks that started on the phones. And so when we're just a big pool of agents, there's all sorts of career paths. There is the compliance team who's probably looking for the more
Adam Parks (15:16)
Most.
DJ Perry (15:26)
analytical black and white folks that might be the high C. There's dialer admin who are running strategy and, trying to think five moves ahead on how they can best maximize their outbound dialing attempts. There's obviously management and leaders within an organization. have, you know, HR. So, I mean, I think it's sales, maybe you're more high, high folks are going to be a little bit better suited for some of those, you know, high energy, outgoing type roles. But yeah, I think you start identifying all those early on as soon as possible and you have a rough idea. And more importantly, having those conversations. You brought up churn, Adam, and this is where it's so important because everybody always says you don't quit your job, you quit your manager. And so then I always think back to, well then you better really get to know your people and you better get to know their personalities and you better get to know
DJ Perry (16:18)
what makes them tick and help them with career growth. So figure out what it is that they want to do, which you probably have some idea based off their personality. And then get to know their emotional bank account. You know, that was another big thing for me as a manager is to sit back and reflect on where do you stand in terms of relationships with those on your team? And are you making enough deposits and withdrawals? This is a seven habits
Adam Parks (16:21)
with career growth, so figure out what it is that they wanna do, which you probably have some idea based off of personality. And then get to know their emotional bank account. That was another big thing for me as a manager is to sit back and reflect on where do you stand in terms of relationship with those on your team. in part, making it at the positive for the withdrawals. This is a seven
DJ Perry (16:44)
leadership tactic, it applies to our personal relationships, it applies to our kids, it applies to work relationships. And before I'd start my shift, I'd kind of sit back and I would just go through a mental inventory of where I'm at with everybody on my team. And if I need to spend some extra time with somebody to make sure that they know that I care and that I'm investing in them, then that's what I would make sure that I mapped out and did that week or that day.
Adam Parks (17:07)
And don't forget the tissues. But it is those little things and you when you brought that up it was kind of funny at the beginning but it really got me thinking about like you really do have to be as a manager aware of the impact that you're having on others around you and if you don't know those people and if you don't understand their motivations it's really difficult for you to
DJ Perry (17:10)
And don't forget the tissues. That's huge. That's huge.
Adam Parks (17:32)
optimize that relationship or to give them what it is that they need because everybody needs something different. I don't need a pat on the back. I have different needs. And I think everybody has those different motivations and those different needs. But the more that you can understand that the more that you can grow from the inside out. And when we're having so much trouble finding people, it's not that we're just having trouble finding collectors organizations are having trouble hiring people in general.
So that ability to move people up through your organization, I think adds significant value, not only to the culture, but to the bottom line performance, because those people, I always like to start people off to where they've got as much experience across the organization as they can. For those of you that know Katalina Dawson, her first three months with our company was go to every department.
The general instruction was you have no immediate work responsibility, go to each and every department and learn as much as you can about what it is that they do and do some of the things with them. And over that three month period, she came back with a much more detailed understanding of the inner workings of every aspect of our business, because it wasn't about what can you produce for me today. We've got a really unique organization. I had to make a unique investment and provide that level of time and energy.
DJ Perry (18:35)
That's awesome.
Adam Parks (18:52)
But it also is a great way for me to identify those people that are gonna work with us long term and those that aren't. Because given that type of freedom in a new job, often people don't take the approach that she took to go and do all of the things and engage. They take it as an opportunity of, I've got this really easy job. I'm not gonna have to put that much into this.
And so it's kind of a nice measurement from my perspective. Now that's not something that you can do with collectors or really most executive roles, but I do think that finding those opportunities, I think the value of her working at every level of the organization informs the decisions that she makes today.
DJ Perry (19:32)
Yeah, and I think so you set out and said, go learn the jobs, go learn the different roles and that shapes perspective and that perspective is invaluable and I couldn't agree more. And then if you were to take that a step further and say, go learn the individual personalities that are out there, go learn people the way that you are learning the jobs. Then too, you're able to go back to your team and go, okay, you're starting to see insights and trends and patterns and things become really easy.
DJ Perry (19:59)
There's people listening to this podcast that know people really well and probably aren't learning a lot of new things, but there's also going to be a lot of folks that are maybe getting some refreshers or maybe they're a little bit newer to management. And I got to tell you, man, if you get to know this stuff, it starts to become easier and you don't, I think I gave you a free disc assessment. It was just a real easy, quick way to hand it to somebody and go fill this out. And then I'll know if you're a D, an I, an S, or a C, and then I'll kind of have an idea of how to work with you.
Adam Parks (20:24)
But you start to develop an ability to just see those things. You're like, ah, okay, this person's got this going on with you. And then you start getting really good at feeling just catered to those around you in a way that isn't manipulative at all. It's really just consideration. It's being considerate and thoughtful of the people around you so that you have a better working relationship and they respect you and they know you care about them.
DJ Perry (20:25)
you start to develop an ability to just see those things. You're like, okay, this person's got this going, okay. And then you start getting really good at being able to just cater to those around you in a way that isn't manipulative at all. It's really just consideration. It's being considerate and thoughtful of the people around you so that you have a better working relationship and they respect you they know that you care about them. And I think that's what it's all
Adam Parks (20:55)
As managers, we have to be fluid. We have to be able to fill the gaps of the team around us. And if we don't understand where the gaps are, it's harder for us to fill them. I think that there, as a manager, we have to find ourselves in so many different places and so many different challenges and scenarios, but understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the people around us and the motivations and what is actually bringing them joy. Because if I wanna retain people long term, I need to focus on their satisfaction, their self satisfaction. And how can I empower their self satisfaction as much as possible to where my sympathy does not exceed my economic interest. And finding that balance, I think is where success starts to bubble.
DJ Perry (21:40)
Yeah, so you kind of hit on two things. One is the servant leadership part of it. And I'm thinking back to even what we're just talking about. it's like, so there's a personality type that's like pre-built for leadership. Well, no, no, not necessarily. I'm not saying that. You said the word fluid, and that's incredibly true. But you have to be able to install, I call it installing switches. So for example, like I am high D when I did the disk assessment way back when.
DJ Perry (22:05)
And so you'll see maybe two young folks that are high D, they get in a room and they maybe are butting heads a little bit. But as you grow and mature and you have a little bit more self-awareness, you have to be able to turn that off. Like I can flip that switch and I can be in a room with other people and say, you're the leader right now in this conversation and I'm perfectly fine with that. And that I think is a part of growing and maturing into a leadership role that's really important. And yeah, that part of it is really key.
Adam Parks (22:35)
You bring up the adaptability of it all and that capability of adapting to whatever the environment requires right now. Right now I'm the podcast host. When I turn this off and I go to make dinner, I'm not the boss anymore, right? Like the rules and things have changed and installing switches is an interesting visual for that adaptability. To be that.
DJ Perry (22:50)
Right.
Adam Parks (23:00)
social chameleon, but in a positive way, because you're not trying to trick or fool anybody. You're just trying to fill the gaps for them and ensure that you can support them so that they can focus on those things that are going to bring them the most joy in their role. And I always feel weird saying something like, what's going to bring you joy? Like the first time I started asking that question in one-on-one meetings, honestly, I felt silly. But I have seen over the last
DJ Perry (23:06)
Right.
Adam Parks (23:29)
five years or so that I've been doing it, one, the comfort level growing with people telling me really where they are, finding some joy in the role that they're doing. And so many times, can't even, countless times across my organization, somebody's job has completely changed based on where they found joy. You really like doing this? Well, let's focus on that and I'll find opportunities to backfill your current responsibilities where you don't find joy because I know it's silly expression, right? Like one man's trash is another man's treasure. But I look at it very much the same way when it comes to these roles, because something that doesn't bring this person joy is going to bring that person joy. And I just need to understand it, identify it and start putting that puzzle together to build my organization.
DJ Perry (24:13)
Yeah, no, 100%. And the StrengthsFinder assessment that Gallup does, it's low cost. But the whole paradigm around it is the opposite of the way we all grew up in the general school system. If you have six classes and you have As in five and you have a D in one, they want you to focus on the D. They want you to get that. And you need balance at a young age, and that's fine.
DJ Perry (24:42)
I'm not saying the school systems are wrong and horrible. But in our professional careers, if we're bad at something, we probably just don't do it. Like we probably focus on the stuff that we're good at, right? And so that's the idea is go find the top five strengths of yours and then build on those strengths and spend your time focusing on those strengths. And exactly at your point, what brings you joy? It's probably what you're strong at.
Adam Parks (24:51)
I'm to be focused on the stuff that we've been at recently build on those strengths and spend your time focusing on those strengths and that will bring you joy.
DJ Perry (25:09)
And then yeah, when you get the right people on the bus, in the right seats, doing the things that they love to do, and that's where the magic happens.
Adam Parks (25:18)
Everybody starts going in the same direction at the same speed and it provides this opportunity for growth. I think it also creates a culture that other people want to join and I think it makes your organization a little more sticky when everybody around you is enjoying what they're doing because that level of complaining and negativity is significantly reduced and people want to spend time in a positive environment. And our work environment is where we spend the majority of our lives. So we need to find those positive opportunities to where we can really thrive.
DJ Perry (25:52)
Yeah, some of the best leaders in the space, and we have a lot of great ones, have always made the focus the people that work throughout their organization. I've seen the opposite. I've seen the management and ownership and leadership sitting behind a screen and trying to run their business off of KPIs and metrics alone. And the difference between those organizations is
Adam Parks (26:17)
All this fancy, yeah.
DJ Perry (26:17)
fast. I mean, it is night and day. And so yeah, I encourage all leadership that is listening to just, you know, emphasize this within the organization and encourage it and celebrate it. Sometimes it's kind of diminished or diminished and dismissed. It's kind of set off to the side like, we don't need to do all this stuff. We don't need to sing kumbaya on personality types. You know, just get to work. Just go collect money and show up every day and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But slowing down and doing this stuff and getting to know your people I think is incredibly important.
Adam Parks (26:53)
That's how you can get people to do things consistently. And consistency is key. Well, DJ, I really do appreciate you coming on and sharing your insights today. It's fun to talk to a tech guy who is so into and found so much joy yourself. Clearly, I could see the excitement that you found in managing and growing people. So I appreciate you coming on, sharing your insights, and participating in this discussion.
DJ Perry (26:55)
Yeah, yeah, it's a good way to put it. Thank you so much Adam, it's been a blast.
Adam Parks (27:20)
Absolutely. And for those of you that are watching, if you have any additional questions you'd like to ask DJ or myself, you can leave those in the comments here on LinkedIn and YouTube, we'll be responding to those. Or if you have additional topics you'd to see us discuss, you can leave those in the comments below as well. And I bet you I can get DJ back here at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry. But until next time, DJ, looking forward to seeing you in an upcoming show. And I look forward to talking to you again soon.
DJ Perry (27:45)
Sounds good.
Adam Parks (27:47)
And thank you everybody for watching. We appreciate your time and attention. We'll see you all again soon. Bye everyone.
