Adam Parks (00:08)
Hello everybody, Adam Parks here with another episode of Receivables Podcast. Today I'm here with my longtime friend and industry legend, Mr. Tom Canary, who is the incoming president for the National Creditors Bar Association, also known as NCBA. How you doing today, Tom?
Tom Canary (00:26)
I'm great. I appreciate you taking the time to have me on this morning. We were conversing earlier. I wish we'd have gotten to spend a little more time in Louisville, but it's always good to see you.
Adam Parks (00:36)
I do greatly appreciate every opportunity to hang out with you, especially in Nashville or any city that's got good music.
Tom Canary (00:43)
I'm there with you always and you know that.
Adam Parks (00:45)
Greatly appreciated. Well, I'm very much looking forward to San Antonio. This will be my first trip out to San Antonio for the NCBA conference in October, from the 14th to the 17th. Really looking forward to that event. But Tom, before we get started here today, for anyone who has not been as lucky as me to become your friend through the years, could you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and how you get to the seat that you're in today?
Tom Canary (01:08)
Sure. I started doing the creditors' rights work and solely creditors' rights work 41 years ago this year. I started with a law firm that I owned for a while and then sold it. And I now work for Keith D. Weiner and Associates, who's based out of Cleveland, Ohio. And I have been active in what used to be NARCA, now is NCBA. I started not the first conference they had, the second conference. I've been involved with them for well over 25 years.
Adam Parks (01:39)
That's fantastic. I love that. Can you tell everyone a little about what you do at Keith D. Wiener and Associates?
Tom Canary (01:44)
Sure. The firm does a lot of collection work, but that's not really primarily what I do. I am doing bankruptcy work. I do creditors mainly bankruptcy work, but we do some chapter 11s and 12s and alike. And also do a lot of reploven work, which we'll talk a little bit more later and how that sort of blended into one of my ambitions at the NCBA.
Adam Parks (02:07)
Alright, well fantastic. So let's let's kind of start at the top here. I've never been to San Antonio. What should I expect?
Tom Canary (02:14)
A great time. The hotel is at the Riverwalk, and I don't know if anybody's ever been to the Riverwalk, but it is you almost have to go to experience. have boats that go up and down and take you on a tour. They have restaurants and vendors that are all along. There's a hard rock there where you can get your hard rock gear if you want that. And I'm sure the association will have some extracurricular events that are surrounding.
San Antonio. For those who want to get away from the River Walk, there are a series of missions that you can go to there and everyone is very different. Don't do what my wife and I did and we decided to walk them and did not know it was about a 10 mile walk in the heat on a bad knee. But if you have the time and the energy, it's well worth doing. So yeah, it'll be a great time.
Adam Parks (02:55)
boy.
Well, I'm looking forward to exploring the city a little bit, finding my way around, maybe going down to see the Alamo, some of those types of things. I mean, it's such a historical location and one of the few cities that I've just not had the privilege of visiting.
Tom Canary (03:15)
It's easy to get to the Alamo from where we are. And the one thing when you get there, you'll be surprised just how small it is. not, it's not, everybody thinks it's a huge fort. It's not. It's well worth it. And they have a museum inside. That'd be a, that'd be a really good side trip to make.
Adam Parks (03:21)
fair enough.
Well, that's definitely on my list for for this particular event. Now, at the conference itself, there's a lot of different things that are happening. I know that you've kind of branched out and started some new working groups or committees at the organization. Talk to me a little about what has changed at NCBA and what it is that you're working on.
Tom Canary (03:35)
Very Well, one of the things that I wanted to do, let me back up a second. About 10 years ago, we rebranded ourselves, something you're very familiar with rebranding from NARCO, which was the National Association of Retail Creditors Attorneys. Now we're NCBA, is the National Creditors Bar Association. Part of that rebranding was to bring other aspects of the creditors rights law into our association.
For those out there who know Alan Beckett, used to be the president of the American Bankruptcy Institute, she and I started the bankruptcy section a few years ago, and it's thriving, which under the leadership of a couple other people. And what we have done this year now is I started looking around trying to figure out where does everybody go that's in the repleven or the...either repleven or impound or forfeiture space. Where do those people go every year to meet exchange ideas like we were doing last week at ACA, which we'll do in October at the NCBA? There were none. And it was sort of like my field of dreams. Let's build it and they'll come. And so we are actually starting off with this new section in October at the conference.
Tom Canary (05:10)
And I have been very pleased with the number of national credit grantors who have approached me and approached the association. So one of the things sort of as a follow up on that, we have open meetings and closed meetings. And the reason I mentioned that at this point is we have some of our clients that are coming there to have closed meetings, meaning only their attorneys, but just for the reploven attorneys. So.
Adam Parks (05:23)
Interesting.
Tom Canary (05:35)
So my hope, my ambition is I was always hoping to make NCBA a one-stop shop for those credit grantors who do the bankruptcy and the replevant and the collections and all kinds of collections, medical collections or whatever. If they could come to one place and they could meet with all of their attorneys because that's, know, NCBA as you well know is attorney law firm driven. Membership is by law firm and not individual attorney. So we do anticipate about 800 people. Coming to the event. Yes, it's a pretty diverse group and it's a fun group. So it'll be that includes credit buyer, credit grantors, debt buyers, networks, vendors, service providers, a little bit of everything. And it'll be a place sort of like we had at the ACA where you can go in and if there's a product or service that you're looking for, we're going to have people that will be glad to be there and take a card from you.
Adam Parks (06:03)
Wow. Fantastic. And I know one of the things that I've always enjoyed at the NCBA is the sessions and the educational experiences that are available. It's a little bit different than other conferences. It is very legal driven. I know there's a lot of CLE credits because I learned this year how to write presentations and proposals that meet that CLE requirement. It's not easy and
Tom Canary (06:40)
Yes.
It's not easy.
Adam Parks (06:51)
And really, I can't thank the staff at NCBA enough for helping me understand and learn that process. I'll be on stage with Manny Placencia from TransUnion and Joy Jackson from Faber & Brand talking about really the results that we saw from the 2024 debt collection industry report from the perspective of law firms specifically. And at that point, I'm hoping to have a little glimpse into the future of the 2025 survey results as well so that we can talk about some of the current challenges and help organizations start to prepare for 2026. I still think there's a lot of especially at a state level, a lot of things that are happening right now. It's important for us to keep our finger on that pulse and stay out in front of it. But what are some of the sessions and topics that you're most excited about this year Tom?
Tom Canary (07:39)
Well, near and dear to your heart, we're having one on artificial intelligence and how that's shaping the future of law. There's positives and negatives to that. I think from the collection standpoint, absolutely, you can have AI do a lot of the things to make your practice much, much more efficient. And unfortunately, we continue to hear about, just saw one yesterday, these cases where people are using AI to write briefs and...
AI hallucinates and cites cases that aren't there. So again, I think one of the things we're going to learn from this session, it's an important tool, but it's a tool, not a replacement. Also, in connection with the replievin section that we were talking about, going to, we're calling it NCBA unlocks the power of replievin and debt collection. And basically some of the things that we do, a lot of people when they hear the word
Tom Canary (08:27)
They think it's a really, complicated process. One of the things that we want to expose people to is a much simpler, much more efficient, both from the standpoint of getting the personal property back and the interaction that you have with your client, a way to do it that a lot of people may not have thought about. And then we're going to have one last session, another session, I should say, investing on efficiency to scale law firms and operations.
We're all experiencing the same thing. More compliance requests, more compliant demands, rates are not going up. And so we have to figure out, as I was told many times this last week, you have to learn how to smarter and not harder. that we have to do well set. We have to do more with less.
Adam Parks (09:06)
How are we going to do more with less?
Tom Canary (09:11)
And also, as you said, there'll be a lot of CLE credits. One of the things NCBA did a few years ago was to align ourselves with the American Bar Association. And we run our CLE credits through there. Thank goodness we were trying to do it on our own. And I've been in your shoes to have to write that presentation. it's not easy. And again, we'll have an exhibit hall that we've talked about before and some networking events.
Adam Parks (09:34)
Well, networking events are our mission critical that opportunity to to spend a little bit of time with the attorneys to spend a little bit of time with the creditors, the debt buyers, bringing everybody together for discussions for me is one of those really critical pieces. And I think NCBA does a great job with that exhibit hall. You have a chance to go through meet talk to some of these different service providers and vendors because there's always more that law firms can deploy in terms of technology, additional services to simplify their lives as we're dealing with an increase in the volume of accounts and a decrease in the liquidity of those accounts. At the same time, we need to do more with less, we need to work smarter, not harder, and being able to navigate some of those things as a group and to meet the people that are there. And I'm sure that there'll be some AI vendors there looking for opportunities to connect with law firms and how they're going to be able to deploy that type of technology going forward.
Tom Canary (10:30)
Be assured I know a couple that are going to be there already. And just one thing you said about the networking opportunities. There's open meetings and closed meetings. The closed meetings are the ones, and this is at the credit grant tour's insistence. So the closed meetings are only their attorneys. We also have three open meetings. And the reason that that could be important to somebody coming in is those are people who are looking for attorneys to represent them in different states and what they do. And I know that, I know,
For sure, for one of the repleven vendors, they are actively looking for people to do that work. And I think once people come and listen to how about this different way to do it, it may be a good addition to their business mix in order to be able to bring a few more dollars in the door.
Adam Parks (11:19)
sounds like a great opportunity. Honestly, repleven is something that I don't know as much about. I'm really looking forward to digging in and getting a better understanding of what some of those processes look like what some of the challenges are for organizations that are trying to move into that space from kind of what's called standard debt collection practices. So I'm I'm very maybe I'm just a curious individual, but I'm really looking forward to understanding that a little bit deeper a little bit better because my understanding is it is a mission critical part of
debt collection, especially as we're dealing with any kind of a secured asset.
Tom Canary (11:52)
And you and can sit down and talk about that, one of those networking events you talked about. The one thing I would remind people, if they are interested in signing up for the conference, if they register by 11.59 PM on August 8th, you get a $300 discount, which is every dollar counts these days. But it's always energetic. It's always a lot of fun.
I always have a lot of energy when I go in and I am just dog tired when I get finished. So I'm looking forward to taking over the reins from Michael Stillman. He's been a great mentor to me as the current president. And I will, I don't officially take over as president till the close of the conference in October. So after that, Michael say it's all yours, Tom. And he's been great to work with.
Adam Parks (12:33)
Okay.
Tom Canary (12:39)
done some things internally that I think is really going to help future leaders who are coming behind us in how we organized and difference between as you well know where the where staff starts and where the board ends and we have a great great staff and I think we have a really good mix in that regard right now and that's why I think our conferences are successful as they have.
Adam Parks (12:40)
Well, it seems like you guys have kept the pedal to the metal as you've continued to move forward over these last few years. I can't believe it's been 10 years since the rebranding to NCBA from NARCA. And it's funny to still hear people say NARCA every once in a while in the back of their minds. It's usually people that don't frequent the conference as much as sure I do, because it is one of my favorite conferences throughout the year. Not only is it a great opportunity to work with
Tom Canary (13:15)
Yes. Appreciate that.
Adam Parks (13:30)
To me, I always think about the three major disciplines of debt collection, right? You've got your law firms, your agencies, and your debt buyers. And I like to participate in the conferences for each one of those to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening around the industry and to have interesting conversations with guys like you that are willing to share with me and help me better understand the different aspects. Because I've never been a collections lawyer. I may have used them through the years, but it helps me to better understand what are you facing in terms of challenges? What's coming up next?
Tom Canary (13:35)
There you go.
Adam Parks (13:59)
and the NCBA conference is a perfect setting.
Tom Canary (14:02)
Yeah, it's all about communication. We do so much better when we all understand where we are and where we want to be.
Adam Parks (14:09)
Anything else that our audience should be aware of Tom as they're preparing and planning to head out to the NCBA conference in San Antonio this year?
Tom Canary (14:18)
I would encourage people either to come in the weekend before or stay the weekend after, enjoy the city. We have over the last several years are trying to go to cities where people can actually come and enjoy themselves. As you well know, we did New Orleans, you can always have a good time in New Orleans, that's for sure. I think people will be very pleased with what San Antonio has to offer and I would encourage them. And also,
Tom Canary (14:42)
Come ready to learn the one thing that I have found about this association as well as many others that our members are very willing to share like you were talking about. Certainly everybody's got their secret sauce in their secret that they don't necessarily want to give up. But as a general rule, it's a very open crowd and very open to questions and sitting down and have a good conversation.
Adam Parks (15:06)
Agreed. I think the attorneys that attend the NCBA conference and even the creditors that attend the NCBA conference look at each other with a sense of camaraderie. And everybody seems to be trying to solve the same problems because we all face the same risks and with the regulatory environment and the legal environment that you're facing, know, organizations are roughly 80 to 85 % the same and the 15 % is the secret sauce, which gives us about 85 % of conversations where we can really talk to each other about
Tom Canary (15:12)
Yep.
Adam Parks (15:35)
The same challenges that we're facing across the country or within specific jurisdictions. It's been very educational for me through the years to really get a better understanding of how that legal process works. And everybody's openness has been a driving factor in my continued participation in the conferences throughout the years.
Tom Canary (15:52)
Great.
Well, we look forward to seeing you and hopefully several others. Certainly, if anybody is interested in the conference, the website is it's not NCBA.org. We were laughing about that before. If you you Google that, you come up with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. But which I still think is really funny. But it is at creditors bar. That's an S on that dot org.
and you can log on, you can see what events we have. have a client meeting schedule is already posted on there, what some of the educational events are, and certainly it will give you an opportunity to contact staff with any questions, and certainly I would invite any questions anybody has.
Adam Parks (16:33)
Sure.
Well, you know that I'll be putting that link below directly to the event for anybody that's looking for more information on the National Creditors Bar Association Conference coming up here in October 2025. But Tom, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your insights with me. I really do appreciate your time today.
Tom Canary (16:42)
I that.
Sure. Always.
I always have a good time spending a few minutes with you, Adam. Look forward to doing it again in October.
Adam Parks (16:54)
Well, I greatly appreciate you for those that are watching. If you have additional questions you'd to ask Tom myself or directly to the NCBA crew, I'll put a link below or you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube and we'll be responding to those. Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, hopefully I can get Tom back here at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry.
Tom Canary (17:13)
Like, all you have to do is ask.
Adam Parks (17:15)
Well, I greatly appreciate that, Tom. We're definitely going to be doing more episodes here in the not too distant future. And thank you everybody for watching today. We really do appreciate your time and attention. We'll see you all again soon. Bye.
Tom Canary (17:26)
Very
good, take care.
