The Bureaus, Inc. | Lorenzo Alcantar: Personality Assessments for Finding the Right Fit | Ep 198

Adam Parks (00:01.494)

Hello everybody, Adam Parks here with another episode of Receivables Roundtable. Today I'm here with my friend Lorenzo with the bureaus incorporated here to talk to us a little bit about managing people in the Rainmaker Assessment, which is one of my favorite topics. How you doing today, Lorenzo? I can't complain. Now I've had the opportunity to get to know you on the DEI committee at RMAI and

Lorenzo Alcantar (00:20.066)

I am good, how are you?

Adam Parks (00:27.532)

through the opportunity to work together for a number of years, but for anyone who has not been as lucky as me, could you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and how you got to the seat that you're in today?

Lorenzo Alcantar (00:36.656)

Absolutely. Thank you. an honor. Name is Lorenzo again, Lorenzo Alcantar. I've been in the collection industry for about 23 years. Long time. Started as a collector, started as a collector and worked my way through the ranks. Got an opportunity to come over to the bureaus. I've been with them for a little over two years. They took a shot at a few people out of an agency that was closing down. The owners wanted to get rid of it and they allowed us to select a few people to

Adam Parks (00:47.148)

and be like.

Lorenzo Alcantar (01:06.116)

come over to their team and what I did is started the internal collection agency and we collected on the older stuff that was the golden mission and really use data that we had to instead of tooling up or having high tools, high level of tools, we use the phone accurate and building a culture. And I think that was the most important part is we came from a different company is I had an opportunity to create culture, the culture that we really wanted that I envisioned.

Lorenzo Alcantar (01:34.42)

And once we created the hardest part with all this after COVID is working remote and creating a culture by working remote. took us about a year or so to build it, became very successful. And we became more of a beta testing different projects, different strategies to deploy. We're a master servicer with the bureaus to deploy to other agencies and talk. What I do now is I moved over to outsourcing. I work with Bill Sorgacz.

Adam Parks (01:41.772)

Sure.

Lorenzo Alcantar (02:02.352)

And I work with all our, have 16 agencies right now. And basically what I do is I get data daily. I look at data files, look at what they're doing. And it's completely different than what I've been used to on the other end as a, a agency working with a client. So my engagement is if it's not daily, it's weekly, it's monthly, on the phone emails. And what I do really is try to provide data and areas of opportunities of what I'm seeing.

Lorenzo Alcantar (02:31.728)

to everybody just to make us a stronger network, give us more purchase power, and really create a consistency amongst everybody, but very open and a very approachable way of doing things. want people, what's different is when you were an agency and you weren't doing really well, sometimes there was hesitation to call your client and ask for advice or see what others are doing. I want a really open door policy. Like I said, I have the data for everybody. If somebody's doing well and they're doing something spectacular,

Lorenzo Alcantar (03:00.558)

I want to be able to share that data and help everybody. And I think we've created a unit of agencies where it's a really organized collaboration per se. And again, I have an open door policy for anybody. My phone rings from seven in the morning till eight o 'clock at night if there's agencies working and I'm here to answer any questions. But it's been a really good journey, a lot of learning. been a student of this. It's a different side of different experience.

Adam Parks (03:03.212)

Sure.

Lorenzo Alcantar (03:29.966)

Working with Aristotle has been tremendous. A lot of learning. Marianne, Bill. So I've learned a lot. Awesome. I mean, it's a powerhouse. Really, it's a powerhouse. So I couldn't ask for anything better. So here we are.

Adam Parks (03:35.933)

You've a great team over there.

Adam Parks (03:43.308)

And look, and so it ties together quite well into today's conversation, which was about the Rainmaker assessment. in, I just pulled this up as we jumped on to start recording here, but I pulled my Rainmaker assessment from the first time I did work for the bureaus incorporated. And I think the first time I actually took this assessment was in 2012. So I'm sure that I evolved and molded over time. I won't say that it's the, you know, still exactly accurate, but we can use this as part of our example today.

The Rainmaker assessment is not about are you good or are you bad? It's about where's your fit, right? Everything is about the circle and it's about where do you fit within the context of a broader discussion? I think that's Marion and Aristotle were the first people that kind of brought this to my attention in terms of a way of actually looking at people management. So from your perspective right now, you guys use this with vendors for from a.

Lorenzo Alcantar (04:17.144)

No.

Adam Parks (04:38.08)

personality assessment standpoint and not like a Briggs Meyers kind of like, should go be a mechanic. This is more about how are you as an individual and where do you fit into society as a person. So talk to us a little bit about what the Rainmaker Assessment is and why you're using it today.

Lorenzo Alcantar (04:44.625)

Alright

Lorenzo Alcantar (04:57.036)

yeah, great, awesome. Everybody takes it. Everybody we do business with takes it at one point or another. It takes away, it removes any bias. Number one, hiring, right? When you hire people, think hiring can be one of the biggest costs for people that don't work out, especially in collections, right? You can go through people and you'll never make up that cost. What's really interesting about the Rainmaker is once you take it, it's not a test, as you said, it's not a pass or fail, but it's more of who you are and how you're wired.

Lorenzo Alcantar (05:25.54)

Your communication what you're good at your motivators behaviors So it's a disk it really describes you as a person and it also describes the things that you might not be really well developed on so it puts in your forefront to make sure that you are you know aware of developing those skills, but Before we hire anybody or we interview anybody they go through the rainmaker and it takes away again anybody's by gender sex, you know age

race, anything, and it just goes by what is this telling us about the person. And once we look at it and we get where they fit in this wheel, right? So there is for collections, for example, there is the persuader conductor side of the wheel. And that's typically what we look for. When I work with agencies, I'm also looking for the agency managers to maybe fit in that wheel as a driver. So it's really cool. It explains how people are developed or what they need developing.

but it also helps with communication. And that's a key component, is being able to communicate effectively as opposed to talking to somebody and somebody maybe tuning you out. You think they're listening, but they're not. And vice versa, where people might feel threatened or it's just not the right style of communication. So anybody that I work with, I take time to read the Rainmaker, look at the results and just really try to communicate in a way that motivates them. So it tells you a lot about the other person and their behaviors.

Lorenzo Alcantar (06:51.108)

and it just allows for better communication.

Adam Parks (06:54.63)

I really do like the approach here. I'm looking at mine and we can display mine on screen here, so I'll give that to the team later. But I ranked as a very high persuader. That was very much it. But I also noticed that my adaptability goes very far back to neutral in another area. And so you find that you have not only an evaluation of where do you fit into it, but how well do you adapt between the different styles when necessary. When you adapt back down to being a little more neutral.

Lorenzo Alcantar (07:21.663)

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, what we've seen is people that have their natural and adaptive style when it's very similar. That's just who you are as a person, right? It's there at some points. And it all depends, like in stressful situations, are you going to be a completely different person? Are you going to hit the panic button and what's going to happen then? But it's interesting. Again, going back to the wheel, it's really provides also when people have applied with us, we've seen people that maybe they're applying for a role that wasn't a

Lorenzo Alcantar (07:55.118)

the best fit, but hey, we noticed that they're a great fit for something else that might be open. So it also creates opportunity within the organization to find the right fit for any place or any area that we might need somebody in. That's really cool.

Adam Parks (08:09.792)

I think there's a role for everybody in an organization, right? So especially the larger the organization, the more types of situations and roles that there are. So from your perspective, looking at, you know, collection agency vendors, for example, you're looking for a specific personality styling within the management team of that organization. Whereas from a media management standpoint, you probably are not looking for a persuader, right? Like you're looking for someone who's more on the coordinator side of the wheel.

Lorenzo Alcantar (08:13.381)

Hello.

Adam Parks (08:37.138)

And so that really does become the balance because there's a lot of different jobs that need to happen within an organization and each one of those jobs can be broken down into roles. I always ask my staff the same question. I do a lot of one -on -one meetings across my organization and I always have one underlying theme. What's bringing you joy in this job? Today, what brings you joy? Right?

Lorenzo Alcantar (08:57.783)

That's a great question.

Adam Parks (08:59.892)

I've got administrative people who find their joy in processing large volumes of documentation, they find joy in checking things off of the checkbox list, right? And sometimes it's as minor as that. And then I have other folks on the other side of the wheel that are driven and motivated by completely different things. you're right, there's plenty of roles for everybody. There's plenty of opportunity to grow within those spaces. But by asking everybody where they find their joy in their job, it allows me to

Lorenzo Alcantar (09:18.384)

100%.

Adam Parks (09:29.196)

build the right roles for them or to move them in an appropriate direction going forward. I'll give you a quick kind of antidote as we went through a major executive change back in December, I know, I talked to three of the different leaders across my organization and basically said over the next 60 days based on your performance on these criteria, we're either going to hire your boss or we're going to hire your next employee. It's up to you and how you do this.

Right? There were three people that we did that with and two of them ended up getting the promotion that they were ultimately hoping for. And the third one ended up kind of working in this more neutral role under the other two or working with the other two to empower them and found more joy in that role. So it's not always like a race to the top of the corporate ladder. Sometimes it's just about finding the right fit for people to where they find that self satisfaction.

I don't want to be all Maslov about it, but the hierarchy of needs is real.

Lorenzo Alcantar (10:26.274)

It's important, it's culture, right? You don't want people in situations where they don't feel happy, heard, it's not what they want to do. Because they're never going to be their best at it, right? Again, the Rainmaker Assessment, what it allows, what it helps you is identify the people and what they're going to be good at, what they're going to enjoy. And, you know, to your point, I like building. I think I'm in the perfect spot. I like challenges.

Lorenzo Alcantar (10:53.244)

But I work with people that if they're in my situation, it's just not the right fit. And I've been in situations where just, what am I doing in this? Right. I'm not happy. And I think as you build an organization, as we're building and bringing in clients, again, all our potential new agencies, all take it. They all take the rainmaker. And I look for the people that take it is the people on the ground level with the collectors is who's driving the business. Right. I want to make sure that the person that's driving.

Adam Parks (11:02.678)

Yeah

Adam Parks (11:18.08)

Is it? Sure.

Lorenzo Alcantar (11:21.602)

is set to be a driver and it's a good fit. One, I'm intense, I'm high energy, so they're gonna have to deal with me on a day basis in a good way. But I pick up the phone and if I see somebody doing good three days of collections, I get all their stats every day, I'll call them and like, what are you doing? What's so great that you're doing different? What stands out today? Same as if they're not doing so great, right? I wanna know and then if I see somebody else, I wanna be able to give that information. So I need to know that that person on the other end,

Adam Parks (11:30.368)

Yeah.

Lorenzo Alcantar (11:50.52)

is going to be receptive and be able to communicate with me in that fashion. So it's important, like you said, it's very important that the people are in the right places so they become successful and they grow.

Adam Parks (12:03.158)

So on the vein of this discussion, Lorenzo, what brings you joy in your role at the bureaus?

Lorenzo Alcantar (12:08.484)

The challenges, I got going from a agency, running an agency, had his challenges. And the difference is that you're in control because if I'm the person making the decision, I make the decision. It's done, right? And I see it through, but it's always based with people, right? I always get as much information from people before any decision is made on the debt buying side as a master servicer. As I'm pushing information out, you're going through levels.

of people to try to get to the people that are going to get to the decision that needs to be made. And the joy is to me is seeing the development of people. My growth, the way I've always explained my growth is by the success of others. If I'm not helping others be successful, I'm not doing anything. My growth is again, I'm always, I'm not going to look at myself first. I'm going to look at the people that I'm working with and say, they

If I can make them successful or be part of their success, right, then I know I'm doing my job. And that's what brings me success is seeing other people being developed and being successful.

Adam Parks (13:17.088)

I love that I'm constantly trying to hire my replacement is the way that I phrase it, right? I'm always looking for someone to come in and take my role so I can take on the next set of challenges in a new role. And I'm good with that. But it is always about finding and empowering those people across your organization to take that next step up if that's what they're looking for. That's why I always ask the joy question.

Lorenzo Alcantar (13:20.528)

100%.

Lorenzo Alcantar (13:36.336)

The only way to grow. Yeah, the only way to grow, right? It's the only way is having that next person stepping up. And if you don't have that person, then you're not going anywhere.

Adam Parks (13:47.754)

Well, and getting an understanding of other people's objectives, because, you know, I may be very money driven and the next person is driven by titles and the next person is driven by something totally different and apart, Comradery amongst their peers, whatever it is, like we all find our joy in different ways and in different situations. I think what Rainmaker has helped me do through the years is better understand the motivations of the people around me, not just the motivations that I interpret based on my own needs or how I view the world.

but to try and open it up through a different lens, through a coordinator lens or an analyzer lens versus being that strong promoter or that conductor that is ultimately making the decisions to drive the train, right? So there's all these different, but a great organization requires a mix of these different strengths and weaknesses in order to kind of put the puzzle pieces together to create a great organization.

Lorenzo Alcantar (14:30.552)

Absolutely.

Absolutely, you know, you don't want everybody doing the same thing, right? Or thinking the same way. And the communication part of the Rainmaker is you hit it right on the dot is what is the other person's motivators? You know, we have a new generation of people that are motivated completely different, right? In the collection agency, one of the hardest things I had to deal with recently was hiring new people. And the reason why is because traditionally we were trying to motivate them by money.

Adam Parks (14:46.237)

Yeah.

Lorenzo Alcantar (15:09.792)

And some of the newer generation, they're not really money motivated. Their success, their motivations is being successful, but a different way. Right. And they like freedoms. They like the flight scheduling. And once you understand how to communicate with them, things get better, but you have to understand what their motivators are. If not, you're not going to effectively communicate and you're going to be, you know, fitting a square peg in a round hole. It's just not going to happen.

Adam Parks (15:37.994)

What's the best piece of advice that you could give to other vendor managers having lived in the shoes of the managed vendor?

Lorenzo Alcantar (15:47.672)

think, know, specifically with the Rainmaker, I think that this is a tool that everybody should use, specifically to, like you said, building an organization and understanding that there's so many different parts that create the organization. But what this assessment does, it helps you identify those individuals. You hire slow, you're going to go, you know, it's going to take, it's a process. But when you hit,

I mean, you're going to be extremely happy at the results. And that's the thing, right? How many people do you go through before you hit a winner? One that's not a winner, but one that fits the role that you're looking for. This really just, it cuts the legwork and the downtime of going through people and really identify, OK, I got somebody that really fits. And if you use what the information that it's given you to help communicate and help build, you'll have it done in no time. I think that people should use this type of assessment because it removes all bias.

when it's just about the person and their skill set and their behaviors.

Adam Parks (16:46.582)

Well, I think that makes a lot of sense. I really do appreciate you coming on and sharing your insights with me today. This has been a lot of fun. I'm glad I finally got you to come on here and we got to have kind of a public discussion about this. But I really do appreciate your insights.

Lorenzo Alcantar (16:55.312)

Thank you.

Lorenzo Alcantar (17:02.37)

I appreciate you. an honor, Adam. Thank you for having me.

Adam Parks (17:05.384)

Absolutely. For those of you that are watching, if you have additional questions you'd like to ask Lorenzo or myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube and we'll be responding to those. Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, you can leave those in the comments below as well. And hopefully I can get Lorenzo to come back at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry. But until next time, everybody, thank you so much for your time and attention today. We really do appreciate you. We'll see you all again soon.

Lorenzo Alcantar (17:23.514)

Capt you.

Lorenzo Alcantar (17:29.69)

Thank you.