Revolutionizing Debt Collection | The Power of Self-Service Portals | Ep. 211

Adam Parks (00:02)

Hello, everybody. Adam Parks here with another episode of the Receivables podcast. Today, I'm here with my good friend and fellow tech nerd, Mr. Mark Reinhardt with Concepts 2 Code. How are doing today, Mark?

Mark Reinhard (00:14)

I'm doing fantastic, how about you?

Adam Parks (00:17)

I'm having a great day here in South Florida. Sorry that I missed the RMAI conference last week for everybody, but hey, know, baby en route, that can happen. But today's conversation, I really wanted to dig in, you know, as we looked at the TransUnion report that was published in January, and we started looking at the growth area opportunities for the debt collection industry, there's hiring more people. using BPO services, or we can move into self-service technology. And since you're someone who provides that self-service portal technology and also the communication technology, I wanted to have a chat with you today about how you're helping organizations around the space actually drive people to those self-service portals through both text messaging and email campaigns. But for anyone who hasn't seen your other episodes with me or hasn't been as lucky, to get to know you through the years, could you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and how you got into this communication self-service business for that collection?

Mark Reinhard (01:19)

Yeah, absolutely. I've been in collections forever. currently own Concepts to Code, which back in the day was just a consultant company, but we did a ton of consulting for different collection agencies and kind of saw an opening in the market where we all know in this business that we're kind of held back by a lot of like legal stuff, regulations and whatever. We don't have the freedom that every market has to just do anything we want from marketing and technology and all this.

Adam Parks (01:31)

opening in the market where we all know in this business that we're kind of held back by lot of like legal stuff, regulations, whatever. We don't have the freedom that every market has to just do anything we want from marketing and technology, all this.

Mark Reinhard (01:45)

And I think that's limited some of the players that have come into the space and you more or less it's a very, it's a restrictive world sometimes.

Adam Parks (01:45)

And I think that's limited some of the players that have come into the space and more or less it's a very, it's a restrictive world sometimes.

Mark Reinhard (01:54)

But in doing that, saw it's kind of cool to learn a new game and play within those rules. We started off, I don't know, 15 plus years ago doing payments online. Back when payments online wasn't the norm. And it's, mean, now it's like insane if you don't take payments online. Like really, someone has to call you? I can't even imagine giving a...

Adam Parks (01:54)

Sure. True.

Mark Reinhard (02:14)

credit card over a phone number right now. But it's not that long ago. And

Adam Parks (02:20)

And payments came in and then, know, with payments, of the topic on the board today is, well, if you give people the ability to make payments or make arrangements or provide information, change of address, like there's all these great things that consumers can do for themselves, but they need to know it's there. So if you're only calling people and sending letters, then you're not really driving them to your portal.

Mark Reinhard (02:21)

payments came in and then, you know, with payments, sort of the topic on the board today is, well, if you give people the ability to make payments or to make arrangements or to provide information, change of address, like there's all these great things that consumers can do for themselves, but they need to know it's there. So if you're only calling people and sending letters, then you're not really driving them to your portal. and you've got a cheaper way to interact with your customer, a more compliant

Adam Parks (02:45)

And you've got a cheaper way to interact with your customer, a more compliant

Mark Reinhard (02:50)

way to interact with your customers, but drive them there. And that goes even for your agents. Even if you have someone on a call, doesn't mean every interaction from that point forward needs to be a call. So follow up your call with an email. It's normal in every other business. Hey, thanks for talking to us today. We look forward to helping you with your solution. please remember we have a portal where you can see your information 24 hours a day. So all these things kind of feed into themselves, but that's been sort of the growth of our company. was from consulting just in a bunch of different collection agencies to building a payment portal, to building a self-service portal, to expanding to email, to expanding to texting, and then expanding on.

Adam Parks (03:20)

Well, think it's important, right? Because when we talk about the self-service technology being those portals, we have to find ways to drive them through. we're always looking at these new opportunities after reg F to communicate with the consumers through these new channels, right? And often the preferred channel of the consumer, especially if you're talking about a consumer who took out an online loan or someone who comes into the younger demographic, right? They're generally looking for that opportunity for self service. But if you're not telling people where it is and that it exists, it's going to be a little bit more difficult. And if you're not if you're trying to send out text messages and emails, you're ultimately trying to push those people somewhere, right? That traffic has to originate and terminate somewhere. Right, and if you're trying to collect a payment, getting them over to the authorization page, not just dumping them onto the homepage of your website, but shortening the distance between I found you and I paid you, I believe has always been my objective from a website perspective. It must be yours too, as you look at that communication model.

Mark Reinhard (04:32)

Yeah, absolutely. mean, specifically in ours, and I'm sure plenty of other systems, is you do want to think about that. How difficult is it for people to get from your website to getting what they need done?

And we all know it can be frustrating on certain websites where you can't find what you need. It's extremely frustrating, even more so on the phone, when something picks up and you're trying to navigate a menu. But we do not want to, yes.

Adam Parks (04:44)

Operator, operator, operator.

Mark Reinhard (04:59)

That's probably the worst frustration is getting to a menu and you just can't get to the option you want. think of that. The web portal is such a better experience because you don't have this linear set of menus, but you have visual cues and the ability to drive people specifically to what they need most, which is getting information about their account, resolving their account, seeing if there's possibly any settlement options or payment options.

Adam Parks (05:19)

is getting information about their accounts, resolving their accounts, seeing if there's possibly any settlement options or payment options.

Those are the main things people are there for. And then you've got some other things such as requesting more information, requesting validation of debt, submitting information, I changed my address. These are like...

Mark Reinhard (05:28)

Those are the main things people are there for. And then you've got some other things such as requesting more information, requesting validation of debt, submitting information. I changed my address. These are like things that the consumer can do by themselves, but they need to have the ability to do it. But there's really like a small window of number of things you need to provide to them upfront. And so make sure that those are the ones they see right away and they can pop right through those options.

Adam Parks (05:41)

things that the consumer can do by themselves, but they need to the ability to do it. But there's really like a small window of number of things you need to provide to them upfront. And so make sure that those are the ones they see right away and they can hop right through those.

The simplest communication, the better, right? Like, you're ultimately dealing with someone who's under stress, right, regardless of kind of reading level or other items, but like, they're under stress. And so when someone's under stress, the easier that you can make it for them to understand the path to conclusion, I think the better off everybody's gonna be. But as we think about these communications and we talk about text messages and we talk about emails and we talk about how are we actually building these tool sets, right? Is it the...

What's the bigger driving factor, right? Like you're building these campaigns and you're trying to build them for success. Is the focus more on the technology or is it on the content? I realize it's gonna be a blend of both, but which of those two disciplines do you think is a more important driving factor in the success of outbound digital campaign strategies?

Mark Reinhard (06:46)

So you said technology and content. I'm going to add one more thing to that, which would be the strategy that you use. When are you reaching out to people? How often are you reaching out to people? Are you annoying them where they're reporting you as spam or whatever it is? are you providing different options to them? So what you're providing them is really the content. And that's super important. The frequency and the time that you're reaching out to them is really your strategy.

Adam Parks (06:49)

Okay. Okay.

The frequency and the time that you're reaching out to that is a need or strategy.

thing that delivers it is the technology. So they're all three important. The technology's there to do the background work.

Mark Reinhard (07:15)

And the thing that delivers it is the technology. So they're all three important. The technology is there to do the background work, to make

sure everything is done, secure, delivered, compliant, whatever it is. And that's, from our perspective, like the easy part. But it is a tool at the end of the day, a hammer's a tool. You can build a great house or you can build a piece of junk. And there is, there's an important part to realize how you use that tool. And different agencies can be under different constraints by clients.

Adam Parks (07:22)

Sure. Sure.

Mark Reinhard (07:44)

So the content is absolutely important, but in order to get to the content, you've got to get it delivered and you got to entice them to open it. And that can be the strategy. So there's really three components in that. If you go like individually to all of them, like I said, technology is the easy one. That's the one they take care of. And that's what your vendor, you know, we're a vendor, but there's plenty of other ones out.

Adam Parks (08:06)

Is it a baseline for the technology, right? Like I get the technology in place now that technology functions and I'm focused more on the content and that strategy piece?

Mark Reinhard (08:15)

Yes and no because, yes, because generally most of it will be handled by your vendor, but your strategy is also something you can abuse. Like if you send a million emails or texts on Monday and then nothing throughout the rest of the week, well, your technology is working just fine, but maybe your strategy isn't. Correct, yes. And so yes and yes and no. I think the content is probably the one where the focus can truly be on and Adam like,

Adam Parks (08:24)

But your strategy is very broken.

Mark Reinhard (08:44)

with you guys and your team doing a lot of websites for people, you know that that content is so important where you're not going to read whatever's in paragraph three. It doesn't matter. You could just put like gibberish in paragraph three. Nobody's reading it. And while your compliance department might say you need it, that's fine. Just accept that no one's reading it. And the reality is, is, you know, you, think you taught this term to me forever ago, the call to action, like what do you want to get done?

And when you're delivering an email or a text message, what is it you want to relay to the customer? And what is it that you want them to act on? And that had better show up in this screen without me scrolling anywhere. And that's a very small amount of information. So for emails and texts, that content is truly, truly important for the deliverability of it. It's the technology and for how often or how frequently you're delivering it.

Adam Parks (09:22)

And that had better show up in this screen without it scrolling anywhere. And it's a very small amount of information. for emails and texts, the content is truly, truly important. The deliverability of it, it's the technology and for how often and how frequently you're delivering it.

Mark Reinhard (09:43)

That's your strategy.

Adam Parks (09:45)

The text message content always reminds me of Twitter. I feel like I'm trying to shove as much, I'm trying to communicate as much as I can in the least amount of characters and at the same time you feel very limited in what you're able to communicate within that. So it feels like you have less flexibility in that area. And I think there's also less known...

I would say in terms of how it's filtered, right? Like think we've got a better understanding of email filters over time and it's probably just based on the amount of time that I've spent fighting with email filters through the years, right? Would you, has that been your experience? Is one technology more difficult than the other to maintain or communicate through?

Mark Reinhard (10:29)

they're all, they're difficult in their own ways. So I don't know if they're more difficult because they're very different. What, with a text message, you do have that, you know, you're not going to send an entire email in a text message. I hope you aren't. you'll definitely be reported, but now we have some other, and that's where it comes back to your strategy. What is it you're relaying? Generally a text message is very simple. Like this is who we are.

Adam Parks (10:36)

Okay. I pray. Yeah.

that's what comes back to your strategy. What is it you're relating? Generally, text message is very simple. This is who we are.

Mark Reinhard (10:57)

this is how you get more information. And that's about all you can get into. There's our little targeted text messages too, like reminders, 

Adam Parks (10:57)

This is how you get more information. And that's about all you can get into. Those are our little targeted text messages to remind us.

Mark Reinhard (11:07)

just a reminder your payment is due, but generally those are after you've already established a communication. So you've got two, text messaging specifically, you have two different opportunities. One is you're reaching out as sort of a blind marketing reach out. This is who we are, please contact us, please go to our website, whatever.

Adam Parks (11:07)

Just a reminder, your payment is due. Generally, those are after you've already established the communication. So you've got two, in text messaging specifically, you two different opportunities. One is you're reaching out as sort of a blind marketing reach out. This is who we are, please contact us, please go to our website, whatever.

Mark Reinhard (11:27)

And the other is you've already communicated with that person. And in that case, it's a completely different strategy because they want to be updated frequently. You know, your payment is

Adam Parks (11:27)

And the other is you've already communicated with that person. And in that case, it's a completely different strategy because they wanna be updated, for example.

Mark Reinhard (11:37)

due, your payment is passed due, your payment's been approved, send them positive messages as well in that text message. So it is a little difficult when you're blindly sending out little chunks of information to know how it's being received. Whereas email, you get a little bit more feedback. You can track more information.

Adam Parks (11:44)

So it is a little difficult when you're blindly sending out little chunks of information to know how it's being received. email you get a little bit more feedback, can track more information. You can also give them lot more information. So the difference has really come down to text messages are more likely to

Mark Reinhard (11:56)

You can also give them a lot more information. the difference has really come down to text messages are likely more are more likely to be read. However, you can't send out as much information. So you have a higher probability of reading, but less opportunity to convey your information. So yeah, they're like they're different games with the same objective. And at the end of the day, the objective is always interaction in some way.

Adam Parks (12:08)

For retention, yeah. Okay.

Mark Reinhard (12:25)

even if people opt out of text messages, that's okay. That's just the nature of it. We've been in the business forever calling people that don't answer and it costs less money to send a text and it takes less time to record a text. But you want people to be interacting and over time that interaction getting higher and higher and also the positivity of it getting higher and higher.

Adam Parks (12:49)

That's interesting now as we think about those kind of those two different worlds, right? How different are the analytics of success, right? The the criteria the Obviously gross dollars collected is always number one, but that comes down to also conversion variables within your funnel itself. But when you think about those two communication methods, how do you measure or what are the differences in your measurements of success?

Mark Reinhard (13:12)

Yeah, the amount of data that you get is very different. With an email, you get all sorts of information. can track every single link. You can have 10 links in your email. You can track which one they clicked on, things like that. You can also track a lot more details as to when they're opening it and other such things. So with texting, you're little bit more reliant on the surges of activity that can follow a text message because you can't track everything that happened.

Adam Parks (13:17)

You can track every single link. You can have 10 links in your email. You can track what you clicked on, things like that. You can also track a lot more details.

Okay.

Mark Reinhard (13:40)

But if you do all your campaigns, text messages, I'm not saying this is a good strategy, just as an example, we send everything between nine and 10 a.m.

If between 10 and 12, you get a lot of activity, there's a reasonable tie to that connection. And generally, emails have a longer life cycle where someone could, you you send an email in the morning, someone may read it later.

Adam Parks (13:48)

True.

Mark Reinhard (14:07)

that night and still respond. While that's possible with a text message, text message is very much there in the fact. And people don't necessarily come back to their text messages as much. They don't think

of it as much of an inbox as like a chat program that's going on and

Adam Parks (14:22)

So you have a shorter window, but possibly a more effective window with text messages to get that response. And you have a longer window with more content.

Mark Reinhard (14:22)

1. So you have a shorter window, but possibly a more effective window with text messaging to get that response. And you have a longer window with more content with an email. So

Just like everything, it's not one is better than the other. It's they're used differently and the true value is using them together.

Adam Parks (14:45)

And if you found indicators that identify, you know, which consumers might respond to which channel, I mean, obviously, through testing, right, you're going to send out campaigns and look at those results, and they didn't respond to this one, let me try that one, is it more of a waterfall effect? Like, how do you manage the or evaluate the strategies

between what should be sent to who.

Mark Reinhard (15:06)

I think, so this may not be across the board, but what we've seen at least in some.

Adam Parks (15:08)

Sure. It's a very broad and general

question, right? Like I realize that case by case specifics are really going to come in strong here portfolio specifics even right? FinTech versus auto and how that auto was originated would always come into play but

Mark Reinhard (15:24)

Yeah. And actually it's interesting. I don't know if the type of debt matters as much as it used to, because the embrace of technology and software and communications is kind of across the board nowadays. It used to be, the kids do this and the, you know, other generations do this. And now at that, I know, but that really has flattened out. Where everyone's pretty much okay with using it, at least the text messaging and the emailing. Now,

Adam Parks (15:29)

Okay. Okay. It was that way for a long time. Okay, fair.

Sure.

Mark Reinhard (15:53)

If someone says I gotta install an app, even myself, I'm a technology guy, I'm totally annoyed if I have to install an app. Like, I gotta go to the dentist, I have to install an app and sign papers. I'll sign the actual paper when I get there. So keep that in mind. It's not totally across the board, but the lower

Adam Parks (15:54)

Not happening.

Mark Reinhard (16:09)

level technologies, which sounds horrible, but that's really what texting and emailing are. They're very basic. Every phone supports them. I forgot the original question.

Adam Parks (16:11)

horrible, but that's really what texting me and Eri are, a theory-based form of text.

So my question was really around, is there one that's more effective for different people? how are you measuring those strategies? What analytics might you use to start to understand those tool sets?

Mark Reinhard (16:35)

Gotcha. So this is interesting. I think that the text messaging can be more effective on the newer accounts. But so if you've got an account that's 30 days old, 60 days old, whatever, text messages can be very effective. The longer the account goes out, the more likely it is that that person is going to be annoyed if you're texting them every week or every couple of days. But people will react to emails in different ways because you can present your email in a different way. It's almost like you get a little bit of a reset.

Adam Parks (16:43)

Interesting.

Mark Reinhard (17:04)

So emails can trend out on some of the older ones a little bit better and texting can trend out on some of the new ones. Like I said,

definitely not across the board. It's just one of the times we were looking into it where we saw this pattern. I thought it was kind of interesting.

Adam Parks (17:11)

Definitely not across the board. It's just one of the times we were looking into it. saw this pattern. I it was kind of interesting.

I mean, that is a pretty interesting pattern, right? So as I start looking at this, I start thinking about some of the opportunities from a

From a communication perspective, if we're looking at the text messages and we're looking at the emails, deliverability is obviously going to be a key factor in our success rate. What other analytics are we looking at to kind of measure the success rates of the digital campaigns?

Mark Reinhard (17:46)

Well, digital campaigns are, you know, it's your digital image. in the, the email world, we call it the email reputation or your domain reputation. Again, going back to websites, what you have done online will affect other things that you do online. So if you have, if you search Google for your company and it comes up with a bunch of lawyers and then you, you know, or not your company up top, and then you go send out a bunch of emails and people's

Adam Parks (17:58)

back to websites, what you have done online will affect other things that you do. So if you have, if you search Google for your company and it comes up with a bunch of lawyers and then you go, or not your company, up top, and then you go send out a bunch of emails and people say,

Mark Reinhard (18:15)

who is this company I'm going to throw this into Google. Like think of that spiraling effect. digital, for all digital usages, you should have a positive digital reputation, which really means an online reputation.

Adam Parks (18:15)

there's a company that can go to Google, like think of that as a file working on that. For digital, for all digital music, you should have a positive digital reputation, which really means an online reputation.

for a text message that you're sending out, people shouldn't be able to Google your number and get back to you. Because we've done it all the time. Who is this number that you're calling me or texting me? You throw it into Google and it either comes up, if it is on your website in

Mark Reinhard (18:27)

For an E for a text message that you're sending out, people should be able to Google your number and get back to you because we've done it all the time. Who is this number that's either calling me or texting me? You throw it into Google and it either comes up if if it is on your website.

in a prominent location, it should have been picked up by Google and it will bring them directly to the site. So there's a lot of things that are important. But I would wrap all of those things up and say it is your

Adam Parks (18:44)

a prominent location, it should have been picked up by Google and it will bring them directly to the site. So there's a lot of things that are important. But I would wrap all of those things up and say, it is your

reputation

Mark Reinhard (18:56)

reputation as a company. You must be very publicly visible, which includes a professional website, you want to have on there.

Adam Parks (18:57)

as a company, must be very publicly visible, which includes the professional website, you know, whatever you want to reviews, I'm going to throw Google reviews in the mix here now too, because for I mean, look, that is it easy for a debt collection agency to get good Google reviews? Actually, it's easier if we put a little effort behind it, right. And I gave this presentation at ACA Fall Forum back in November with Catalina Dawson from branding are talking about

you know, really what that positive effect is of your online reputation by leveraging or soliciting those positive reviews and the positive effect it had on search engine optimization across the board. And we've seen it over and over again, because I've, I've gone in and done technical evaluations of some of the sites that have been successful in ranking for things like debt collection agency, which is a very generic term.

And some of those that are winning are not winning because their site has technical superiority or because they've got a better domain or anything else. It's because Google cheats and Google will look at Google reviews and say, hey, this is positive. But you also made a statement at the beginning about going to search your own company and you know, what does that look like? I mean, if you're not set up as one of the accounts in your system and you're not going through the full experience of the consumer from a text messaging and email standpoint, then your strategies are really

not going to be as effective like you need to look for those opportunities to actually go through that experience yourself. What do you see? What do you read? If I search for my company name, what comes up at the top second, third and fourth? Because we're here playing a game of monopoly being we're not selling widgets, right? If I was selling widgets, debt collection agency, I need to be number one right for x, y, collection agency.

But the reality is I need to control the entire first page for XYZ collection agency and that takes a lot of different online properties existing, right? There's a lot of work and effort that goes into that entire process. So I agree wholeheartedly with building that domain reputation, but it's interesting to see how important that is from an email perspective. Would you give it the same or a similar weight when considering it from an SMS perspective? Like does that tie in the same way?

or is that more managed by the phone networks?

Mark Reinhard (21:10)

I think so,

again, a bit harder to measure because especially if using a short code and your short code is, know, five, six numbers, it's hard to throw those five, six numbers into Google and get, and expect it to find the webpage. So I'll give people a break on that one. But you should be telling people in there who you are. And so that name does tie in. people...

Adam Parks (21:26)

Sure Or whatever name

abbreviation should also be on your website right if it's if you're just calling yourself XYZ and not XYZ collection agency We need to make sure XYZ is on your website

Mark Reinhard (21:37)

Correct.

Yeah.

Speaking of which, this might be totally off topic, but please also do that on your credit card statements because there's nothing more frustrating to someone that says there's a $78 charge to like XYZ and you're like, who the hell is XYZ? I've never gone there. These are very simple things. You can control what shows up there. You can control what shows up on your website. It's all about presentation. But if people are charging back and again, kind of looping this into presentation because they don't understand

Adam Parks (21:47)

Okay, bring it.

something more frustrating to someone that says $78 charge to like XYZ and you're like who the hell is XYZ I've never gone there these are very simple things

Sure

Mark Reinhard (22:14)

who they actually paid, that's a really annoying problem that's completely solvable. Make your identity clear, specific, and transparent, and make it easy to contact you, email, text, whatever. Remember, all of these things are generally thought of as outbound, but they can also be inbound as well. Do you have a question? Send us a text.

Do you have a question? Send us an email. Contact us form.

Adam Parks (22:34)

you have a question, send us an email. Contact us for a

chat bot, whatever it is. Make yourself accessible so that if someone does have a question they want to reach you. Don't ever make it hard to reach your company. And step one is finding your company.

Mark Reinhard (22:39)

chat bot, whatever it is, make yourself accessible so that if someone does have a question they want to reach you, don't ever make it hard to reach your company. And step one is finding your company.

Adam Parks (22:50)

Well, that call to action of do you have a question is a call to action as well, right? Like, do you have a quick like ask question like we're here to answer questions, making statements like that, right? And making yourself readily available in the language, I think also is a driving factor towards actually getting a consumer comfortable enough, right? For years, as we've talked about branding and kind of marketplace positioning for collection agencies, I think it's important that we

Mark Reinhard (23:07)

Yeah.

Adam Parks (23:16)

you know, kind of understand how we're being viewed and how can we simplify that and make it as, as clean and as easy for someone who doesn't know who our organization is, right? We want to be approachable institutions, right? We are financial institutions, whether you're a collection agency or a debt buyer or whatever, right? Like we're financial institutions, but we also still have to be approachable.

And I feel like that's something that has changed significantly. And even if you look at the kind of language and imagery that's been used on websites and communications with consumers over the last five years, it's changed pretty dramatically from people trying to sell their business services, right? Sell collection agency services through their website to trying to empower the consumer to communicate and contact them to get to that point in which there can be a conversation and the.

Adam Parks (24:08)

and the account can start to move towards resolution.

Mark Reinhard (24:11)

Yeah, your advertisement and your image and in the words of your own company, the branding is so important and think of it from a consumer. You need to brand and market your company to the consumer, not to your customers, your clients, whatever. Yes, there's a need for that, but it is not your sole focus. think of it from a shop like you're selling something at a shop, a convenience store, whatever all over you sale this, you know.

Adam Parks (24:21)

We're open, yeah.

Mark Reinhard (24:39)

beer here, whatever, whatever you're selling, donuts, it doesn't matter. But you're also a business trying to make money, but you don't put

on the label like, we're the most profitable donut shop ever, we got the best margins. Like, no. But there are people who care about that, but that's not who you're advertising for. Remember, you're marketing to your consumers, not to your vendors. You do that in a different place, at a different time, because at the end of the day, that's where everything is generated from.

Adam Parks (24:50)

is like, but there are people who care about that, but that's not a weird aspect. Agreed.

you

Mark Reinhard (25:09)

We see less and less of this, it used to be we take on some new customers and you go to their website and like, we're the best collection agency ever. We'll get every dime out of everyone. I'm like, my God, your consumers are seeing this.

Adam Parks (25:22)

Every word that we write, every word that we communicate is read by three audiences. It's read by the consumer, the client, and the regulator. And we need to...

consider that every time every time that we're writing something. And look, I've written that content in the past, because that was the norm 10 years ago, right? But the world has changed pretty significantly. And I think the graphic imagery, the the whole idea behind, you know, the friendly debt collector, I think has really evolved over the last 10 years. And we may not be the most loved of industries. But we do provide you know, an essential service. And I think that the industry itself has done an incredible job of evolving with those consumer wants and needs to be able to meet the consumer where they want to be met. And a lot of that comes down to back to the beginning of the discussion, the self service technology, right? That's that's what it comes down to the consumers want self service technology. And for us to be able to scale our businesses in the debt collection industry, we need to be able to grow. And we're having trouble hiring more people.

We can use BPO to fill those seats and hire in new geographic locations, or we can turn to self-service technology. And if we're gonna turn to self-service technology, we have to communicate about it too. Having a portal is one thing, driving people there with text messages and emails is another. And using text messages and emails, but not driving them directly to where they can start to take those actions. You have to look at what that journey really is for that consumer.

and do it from a mobile device because we've had this massive shift from desktop to mobile over the last 15 years. And now across the debt collection industry, I can tell you emphatically that we're talking about a 60 to 80 % mobile over desktop to this point across organizations. And that's a, I realize that's a wide swath, but we're well over the 50 % mark. And I would say the average is between 70 and 75%. Although we'll have more specific numbers in a white paper later this year.

Mark Reinhard (27:23)

You're absolutely right. mean, everything, everything is on the phone and it's no different. Like you and I might sit at computer all day, but that's not, that's not, doesn't mean everyone does.

Adam Parks (27:31)

It doesn't mean everyone. No, I constantly

have to pull up my computer or I do the mirroring on my Mac so that I'm looking at things from a mobile perspective. And every time that I have a new design sent to me from our internal team, the first thing I do is pull it up on mobile. I don't even look at the desktop until after I've gone through the mobile site. right. And now we have responsive design so that you are dealing with the same sites, but things can be customized to present better based on device, even though you're presenting the same content. And it's important to kind of go through that.

Adam Parks (28:01)

But another conversation for another day as we talk about user interfaces and other things in future episodes, but Mark, I really do appreciate you coming on and having a chat with me here today. I learned something from every one of our conversations and today is no shortage strategy technology, right? And we got to make sure that we're bringing all in the content and we got to make sure that we're bringing those three areas together.

Mark Reinhard (28:28)

Yeah, absolutely. Fun talking about this stuff as always. It's nice having nerdy conversations, but you know, it's how the mind works, I guess sometimes. But it is at the end of the day, we are, we should all think of ourselves as we're a customer service. Our goal is to provide the customer with the best service. And in the end, that will bring in the best revenue and the best feedback or hopefully even the Google reviews.

Adam Parks (28:41)

We all think of ourselves as...

I think there's a lot of opportunity there for those of you that are watching. If you have additional questions you'd like to ask Mark or myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube or shoot us a direct message. Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, you can leave those in the comments below as well. And I bet you I can get Mark to come back at least one more time to help me create

great content for a great industry. But until next time, everyone, I hope you all had fun at the RMAI conference last week, I definitely had my fear of missing out. But I look forward to seeing you all again in the near future. So thanks, everybody. We'll see you all again soon. And thanks, Mark, I appreciate you.

Mark Reinhard (29:28)

Thanks everybody, thanks Adam.