Adam Parks (00:08)
Hello everybody, Adam Parks here with another episode of Receivables Podcast. Today, I'm here with my friends, Jason Davis and Tom York, joining me from Castlewise. You know, it's the beginning of the year and as at the beginning of the year, we always start looking a little bit more at our businesses. I just went through an administrative review of my own business and was shocked at what I found over a short period of time.
In talking with Jason and Tom, we started talking a little bit, what is it like and maybe why organizations are not taking that approach and really reviewing ourselves uncomfortably from an administrative position each year. But before we jump into all of that, Tom, maybe starting with you, could you tell everyone a little about yourself and how you got to the seat that you're in today?
Tom York (00:57)
Sure, yeah, so I graduated from the University of Florida with a degree in economics back in 08. My first job was carrier side, underwriting, and moved to product development. And I had more of an interest in analytics, and so I took an actuary exam with plans to become an actuary setting rates for carriers and their insurance products.
Ultimately, that didn't happen because I was approached by a company called ERC, Enhanced Recovery Company, or Enhanced Resource Centers out of Jacksonville to head up their strategy and analytics department. I didn't know anything about collection agencies prior to that. This was, I think, 08 or 09. And so that's what got me into collections and away from insurance. I worked there for about 10 years, overseeing strategy analytics, some ancillary departments, management and ultimately got burned out which I think a lot of collection agency professionals can probably identify with.
Adam Parks (01:58)
I'm testing ya.
Tom York (02:02)
I left and ultimately started Castlewise in 2019. I started off as an insurance agency first and licensing came a couple of years ago. yeah, it was kind of a natural fit selling insurance into collection agencies because I have the domain experience and domain knowledge and the insurance background. So was kind of a natural fit.
Adam Parks (02:29)
It sure sounds like a natural fit. Jason, how about you? Could you tell everyone a little about yourself and how you got to the seat that you're in today?
Jason Davis (02:36)
Absolutely. Started out in collections on the first party side for a bank, formerly known as First Star Bank, now US Bank in the late 90s. Ended up moving to Jacksonville, Florida, 2002. And that was just a decision that I made. Wanted to get out of the Midwest, the cold. Decided to move down and ERC, Tom mentioned, was hiring at the time, went to work for them as an agent on the floor and quickly moved up in the company through quality assurance and ultimately into compliance. you know, started my journey with them in 2002, exited the organization in 21 and ended up joining another collection agency. My period of time with ERC, as I mentioned, I started out in quality assurance, moved up into compliance roles, ultimately into information technology, project management, and then kind of rode things out back office, IT support, desktop support, file processing, development, until about early 2013 when we got notice that the CFPB was coming to join.
Uh, and sit in our offices for two and a half, three months with anywhere between 10 and 12 regulators to see what we did and how we did it. Um, that was an interesting time because I wasn't in compliance at the time I was in, you know, like I said, back office, it, um, I was VP of it at the time and spent most of my time with those auditors you know, upfront collecting the data and the information, putting everything together for them. spent my time in the actual room that we had dedicated for them to sit in and have computer access to our systems. and out of that audit, that very first one, July, 2013, wrapped up, I think late August. So it didn't actually go to the full 12 weeks. however, you know, out of that audit, the company said, hey, You know, we need to, we need to redo a lot of things. We need to go back to the very basics. We want to rebuild a compliance department. want an audit internal and external. want this, we want that. Go, it's yours. Do with it what you will. Um, so, you know, I took that on and from 2013 to 2021, um, basically created every single department we needed to be highly successful as an organization, and be highly compliant. And, you know, not to pat myself on the back, but to have basically five CFPB audits in that time span with the RSC and have no consent orders, no fines, no nothing. I take that as a huge personal win.
Adam Parks (05:21)
I think that's more than a small win, especially during that time period 2013 through 2015 when you didn't actually have to do anything wrong to get a consent order. They just make up a new rule and be like, yeah, you get a consent order for this new thing.
Jason Davis (05:37)
I remember, there was a time when we were talking in the first audit and they said, how did these accounts get the credit report? And the answer was, well, we credit report and the collective jaws just dropped because they had no understanding of that. They're like, well, how many accounts you have on credit reports? And at the time, I think we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 16, 17 million accounts and they were just flabbergasted. That's actually what prompted them to come back later and do a review specific to credit. That's a CBR report.
Adam Parks (06:09)
Interesting. You know, it sounds like you guys have been through a lot on the agency side and through an agency that went through its own rebirth, right? Cause you went through that process with the CFPB and then kind of recreating all of the departments in this new image, which I'm familiar with that process too. We could probably share some more stories on that. Maybe that maybe that's a different podcast for us. But you know, part of it actually is a great segue into what I wanted to talk to you guys about today, which is going in and looking at your own documentation. I think as organizations, especially collection agencies, we do so many different things throughout the year and some things we only do once a year. And I think when it comes time for renewals, we're just trying to get through it versus trying to understand it. And are these renewals that we're putting on automatic processes really optimized for our businesses. And I'll give you one example is just kind of going through my own materials over the last couple of months and finding how many extra licenses am I paying for on this platform or that platform? How much more am I paying for a particular insurance policy that maybe I need or don't really need as an organization because of the changes that we've been through as an organization.What do you think stops people from going through that process every year? Is it just because we put it on autopilot or do you think it's we don't want to look at ourselves in the mirrors that close?
Tom York (07:41)
I think primarily it's boring and tedious. And yeah, you might be a little bit afraid about what you find. But I more so is just, I don't want to read that contract. I don't want to, yeah. Everything's been fine. We're just going to keep going.
Adam Parks (07:45)
Fair. It keeps working.
Jason Davis (07:58)
I agree. think it comes down to couple, a couple of things though. Like Tom mentioned, yes, it's definitely boring, right? A lot of the stuff is, you you got to dig in, look at it. What's going on here? What's going on there? I think another piece of it is, you know, do you have the right people scheduled in your organization to look at the right things? Because, you know, you can say, hey go, go take a look at this department and what they're spending, what's their P and L and, know, what are they paying for from a licensing perspective, what are they paying for from a software perspective? And if you don't have the right person looking at that, a lot of stuff is going to slip through. A lot of stuff is going to just stay on your books. I think it's important to make sure that you've got the right people looking at the right things. And the other thing is that the nature of our business is just constant. Go, go, go, the next fire, the next fire.
We joked all the time that we were just either firemen putting out fires or janitors, you know, mopping up the messes. So you know, taking the time out of your day or, or, you know, every six months or even once a year to go line by line to your, you know, through your P&L and find where you're hemorrhaging money that you don't need to, or where you have a little bit of waste or, or whatever. mean, you know, a couple hundred dollars in EBITDA savings is a couple hundred dollars in EBITDA savings, right? So if you do it this year and you always find a couple things, great, that's good. But you might find a significant amount of savings and that's even better, right? Because that's just right to your bottom line.
Adam Parks (09:25)
Especially if you're able to maintain the same level of service across your organization, then sometimes going in and taking that look can be a helpful experience. But you can't do it last minute either. You can't wait to get the renewal email to say, okay, it's time for me to start thinking about my renewals. Because I think that's part of the trap that I found myself in was that like, okay, the bill's here, got to pay the bill. There's no time to shop it this year. Maybe next year I'll shop it. Right? And because we're not looking at it until it's on our table and it requires action. What's a reasonable timeframe for people to start looking at licensing and insurance and some of these other administrative functions like before it's coming up for debate and discussion?
Tom York (10:08)
Yeah, I think a general rule of thumb, and you'll probably see this in a lot of contracts, is that the deadline that you have to not renew the contract, whether it's a licensing contract or a SaaS contract or whatever, it might be 60 days, it might be 90 days. So by the time that bill hits your desk, it's, yeah, you're already locked in for the year.
Adam Parks (10:30)
Doesn't even matter. Yeah. That's what I mean. It just goes on to autopilot because we're not looking at it. So like when should we start looking at some of these things?
Tom York (10:37)
Yeah, so I think I think a good rule of thumb for anything is probably 60 to 90 days out. I think that will help protect you from the evergreen contracts, the auto renew, and maybe they need 60 days advance notice. I think that's very helpful. From an insurance perspective, we like to give ourselves 60 to 90 days just so we can go to market and make sure that we have completely filled out applications and have some time for that coverage review. Because a lot of the things that we're looking at are fairly complex. Yeah, it takes some time. So. But yes.
Adam Parks (11:09)
And how do you activate that within your business, So like, do you activate that process? Is it just as simple as getting it on the calendar and making sure that we're scheduling an annual review? But like, how have you activated those types of reviews in the past?
Jason Davis (11:24)
Yeah, I mean, think it's being regimented enough to make sure that you know that you've got X amount of line items that you're attributing to your organization, your subset departments within the company. you know, not to sound like a corporate drum beater, but it's got to come from the top down. I mean, it really does, right? Like your executives, your board has to be pushing got to make sure that we're, keeping up on our P and L or looking for waste. It's got to be a regular occurrence in, in, know, executive level discussions. And, know, over time, I think executives could back off of that a little bit. Once you've instilled it in your organization, that's a regular occurrence that's just happening, right. But it really needs to come from the top level leaders of each of the departments, the executive management of the organization and the board.
Tom York (12:14)
Yeah, I it happened last week. I had to calendarize something like a year out. I wanted to get rid of a SaaS product that I've got. And you have to cancel it no further out than six months from renewal, but less than 60 days from renewal. So put a calendar reminder out there for 90 days. Like, I want to cancel this. So yeah, it's just discipline.
Adam Parks (12:35)
started doing some like departmental stuff like that too, right? Like putting accounting on a calendar so that like here's the expectation in terms of renewals and here's the timelines that we're expecting to see these things. So I'm curious as to, know, as you're managing a variety of clients now, you guys have been at this for a few years, you've grown pretty significantly. How do you help a client? Like from the outside, stay on top of this. Is it just getting them the notices? Is it engaging in conversation frequently? what's the, how does a customer stay?
Tom York (13:08)
So from the perspective of a new client, maybe a client that we're talking to, but they're not a customer yet, it's just kind of highlighting the fact that, it might be three or five years since you went and looked at bonds or insurance or registered agent. I mean, it's the driest stuff, but it adds up. There's a lot of expense there. And I mean, And that's really the major areas that we're looking at. From a licensing perspective, you know, there's, we like to think of there's five throughputs costs. You've got registered agents and you've got bonds. There's pricing flexibility there. You can shop those. The state licenses and the state registrations, whatever, it's whatever the state is requiring. And then to a lesser degree, you've got a couple of states that require resident managers And really there's not a lot of variability there and there's only only a few of those but Yeah outside of whatever you're paying administratively if you're not handling your licensing internally You've got a couple big levers there because you should have a registered agent In pretty much every state that you're working. So if you're nationwide, I mean you might have 50 registered agents which like Jason said depending on your pricing. I mean it could be 50 bucks. It could be 150 bucks per jurisdiction. You know we've seen it as high as like 300 or 400. So that's lot of juice.
Adam Parks (14:27)
Well, it seems like an area that's ripe for cost savings, especially as we're all trying to condense and everybody's going to see next week in the TransUnion Debt Collection Industry Report that controlling costs is one of the top concerns. I actually believe it's the number one concern across debt collection organizations these days. So let's go back to those for a minute, because I think from a licensing perspective, it's interesting to think about where can I save here? Help me understand the registered agents and what is the real differential here and how much could I really save.
Jason Davis (15:00)
I think from a registered agent perspective, it's really going to be dependent on who the company is using today already and what their pricing is. It's entirely possible that maybe they have pretty decent pricing and they're paying $100 or $120 per jurisdiction. Not terrible pricing. Now, we've got wholesale pricing ourselves that we can knock that down even further. So there is some cost savings there. But we've had conversations with companies. We've looked at you know, what they're paying and nine times out of ten when we have those conversations, they're like, well, I don't know how much I paid for registered agent. I need to go look, right? So they don't know it. Then they go find it. And then they present it and we're like, whoa you're paying $350 for each registered agent that you have, on top of your SOPs are costing, you know, $18 a piece or, or whatever the, the, the amount is that they're paying for those SOPs. You could have a company that is using sure they're big registered agent service. They're a huge company, but you're paying three, four, five times what you really need to be paying. The relationships that we have with two different registered agent services allow us to knock those prices down while still giving the exact same service. Dollar for dollar, the individual SOP costs are less costly than what we're seeing across the board and other of the bigger registered agent providers. We think it just makes a ton of sense to manage it all in one spot. Let us handle that. SOPs still arrived you in real time. There's no delays. And you're saving potentially 50, 60, 70, 80 % there.
Tom York (16:35)
Yeah, and I think one other interesting thing to add that probably a lot of agencies don't really consider is that if you are nationwide and you've got a registered agent in every jurisdiction you're working, 50 states, you could potentially, if you didn't want to go through us or somebody else, you could probably get wholesale pricing yourself. I mean, it's not just one or two here. Like, don't knock it out.
Adam Parks (16:54)
Yeah. Because you need to buy the, because you're, you're in it for 50. I mean, if you're following best practices, right.
Tom York (17:03)
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So yeah, we charge $55 per registered agent, but I mean, yeah, you could get decent pricing just by going, hey, we got 50. What can you do for us? Rather than just street pricing.
Adam Parks (17:08)
Yeah, that's interesting. Now, the other area that you had mentioned where there was some savings opportunities there, I think you mentioned the bonds as well. And like I understand the general dynamic of a bond, but not everybody in our audience does. Could you talk through a little bit about what the bonds are, why they exist?
Tom York (17:36)
Sure, so a bond, generally speaking, is just an extension of credit. When we're talking about licensing bonds, or even performance bonds that a client might require. They just want to make sure that in the event something goes wrong, someone's going to pay the fine or whatever the amount is for a breach of contract or whatever the case may be. With the licensing bonds, it's all vanilla. The state wants 50 grand or the state wants five grand and you just need a carrier that can come in that has got a good credit rating. And that's really the only thing you're looking at. So anybody that's really writing those bonds, I mean, there really isn't a lot of variety except for price is really what it comes down to.
Adam Parks (18:21)
So there's no real differential between if I buy from X or Y. It's a function of have I reviewed it and am I at an optimal price point.
Tom York (18:31)
Yeah, that's exactly right. So there are some agencies that will have an exclusive with, Travelers as the carrier and the bond writer. You know, we go through Travelers Arch Nationwide and CNA surety. Depending on the state or the jurisdiction, the pricing could differ. And, you know, we're looking to get the lowest bond premium for the surety limit and for the jurisdiction that we're writing in. But in terms of is one better than the other? No. Instead, insurance policies are different. Bonds, No, no different. It's price.
Adam Parks (19:07)
Well, from insurance policy standpoint, that's an interesting transition because we think about, I always think about the, the cyber policies and maybe that's because I feel like it's the, the new kid on the block and it's the new challenge. And I wonder how much we truly understand about it. And as we were preparing for the call, one of the comments I had made was around artificial intelligence and our technology stacks are changing right now at a pace that we've never seen before.
We've never seen technology in this industry move this rapidly in the adoption of it. I've had more conversations about system of record conversions and things in the last probably six months than I've had in the last six years. So there's definitely a comfort level for technology change. But if our insurance policies are there to protect us, are we prepared for the use of artificial intelligence? Are we prepared for the changes to these technology stacks and what that ultimately means from policy perspective? And how much new danger are we creating by just having it on autopilot for the renewals every year without going in and taking a look to compare it against our technology infrastructure?
Tom York (20:20)
Sure, so from a cyber perspective, and really kind of blends into, know, because a lot of what agencies are trying to implement now is AI. As you said earlier, cost savings is a huge item that agencies are looking at. And one of the ways that they're trying to implement cost savings is by reducing head counts and implementing AI. And so in your traditional cyber policy, that's mainly covering data breach, among other things. But you're not going to necessarily get the coverage that you're hoping to get for your AI implementation. And so that would more or less fall within your traditional ENO policy, but most if not all ENO policies right now are silent on AI, leaving you somewhat vulnerable. And I've also heard that we should expect to see some endorsements in the future that explicitly deny coverage for errors and emissions related to AI agents. So.
Adam Parks (21:17)
that be hallucinations?
Tom York (21:19)
Yeah, could be, yeah, poor model validation, hallucinations. Yeah, I mean, we've seen it where two AIs talking to each other. One started off as the debtor, and the other started off as a collection agency, and they switched roles halfway through the conversation. So.
Adam Parks (21:22)
Yeah. I am concerned about the bot versus bot conversations that are coming in 2026.
Tom York (21:40)
Yeah, so there is a new AI product available and it explicitly covers AI errors and emissions from your AI. It's pretty in-depth. It's a little bit more in-depth underwriting than any other policy you'd have because they do an actual model validation of your AI model to make sure that it's insurable. Then you can even offer it to clients saying, hey, if the AI screws up and we don't perform as well as we said we were going to, insurance policy may pay out for loss of revenue or cover things like errors in like FDCPA violations committed by the AI agent.
Adam Parks (22:15)
Interesting. Interesting. So there's full new policies being built around the way in which our industry is changing. Now, Jason, you were the head of the vice president of information technology for a very large agency. How often were you looking at the policies as compared to your staff?
Jason Davis (22:36)
So I didn't look at them probably as much as I should have. that's a lesson that I learned, you know, moving into compliance and, and, know, getting more used to checking your policies and your procedures every single year, sometimes multiple times a year. and just a function of, you know, continue, continued growth in the organization. you know, really the, the CFO, CTOs handle the insurance policy stuff. And it wasn't really until when I took over legal, moving into compliance and then, know, 2013, late 15, I believe I took over all of our legal and handling all of the lawsuits is really kind of when I started looking at the policies, right? Because it's, you need to know what the policies say, what your coverage is, what are your retention limits? I think we did a pretty good job of making sure that we shopped around to get better policy pricing. But, you know, again, that was kind of outside of my purview, other than the input I had of, hey, we need to keep our retention down. We need this, you know, in terms of, know, border over reporting or, you know, kind of specific requests around managing it. so, you know, I think even at that point, I probably could have done a deeper dive into the actual policies themselves, but you know, I think. We talked about it earlier on the call. It's dry, it's boring, and half the stuff that.
Adam Parks (23:54)
Yeah,
Tom York (23:56)
you
Adam Parks (23:56)
in hindsight it's 2020, right?
Tom York (23:57)
Yeah.
Adam Parks (23:58)
That's interesting. what else are you seeing from... Go ahead.
Tom York (24:01)
I was going say, I've got two specific examples from the insurance side of why it's so important to at least review it annually or every couple of years. One is pricing today. So I recently quoted, called a mid-size agency. They had a $10 million E&O limit. And they got a renewal quote back, call it just for ease of numbers, call it $150,000 is their renewal. And they said, hey, can you shop this for us? I said, yeah, that's no problem. So we come back and we've got better coverage, better terms, and let's say it's $120,000. The incumbent agency immediately came back and said, oh, you know what? That renewal quote that I gave you, can actually do a lot better. And so you're really only going to experience the savings if you go out and shop these things. If you just go, hey, that seems a little high. Can we do anything about it? They're going go, oh, I don't think so. So that's the pricing.
Adam Parks (25:09)
But no, I look, it's interesting because it's the things that we don't look at that often. And I think that sometimes the person selling it to us also is thinking the same thing, right? Like it's a hot button today, but tomorrow it's a forgotten cost.
Tom York (25:25)
Yeah, and sometimes it's not just the today premium, what are you paying? It's what's actually in the policy. A lot of people, they go, oh, we need a certificate of insurance to say we need these coverages. But when it comes down to it, like if you think about the insurance product itself, it's not just a limit, it's the entire contract. And so I recently looked at an E&O policy for a large agency and to be clear, and I'm glad to say this, this wasn't written by us or ACA or any of the other folks in the space in the industry. It was from a hometown local agent that wrote a pretty substantially in-own policy. was a $5 million limit. Premium was roughly $90,000, and it included an exclusion for FDCPA, TCPA, and FCRA. And I mean, those are the three things that agencies are getting sued for primarily. But if somehow they found coverage in the policy, they had a single claim retention of $500,000, which means the first $500k of the claim that's on you before it hits insurance. And God forbid if it's a class action, there is a $1 million retention, all for the low low price of $90,000. ⁓
Adam Parks (26:44)
All for the low low price.
Tom York (26:47)
So it's one of those things that's like, yeah, can we get our premium down now? it's, what happens at claim time? And quite frankly, most of the stuff that I see is not that bad. That is literally the worst policy that I've ever seen. And usually, things are pretty reasonable. Maybe we can do better. that's fortunately the only really bad one that I've
Adam Parks (27:09)
Regis, you know, taking advantage of the client is never good. Now, you've said a lot of interesting things at once here when it comes to the insurance and you my brain, I guess, keeps going to the cyber, but the E&O is something that we all need to have. You know, what should people be thinking about in their E&O policy as they get into these annual renewals?
Tom York (27:13)
Yeah. Well, mean, E&O is a pretty complex subject. And quite frankly, it's not like a bond at all. There are major differences between policies when it comes to specific sublimits for FCRA or TCPA. That's typically where we're seeing the sublimits. Sometimes there might even be an FDCPA sublimit, which you probably want to avoid. But there's other things that you could throw in that maybe you didn't even know were available, like choice of counsel. If you have an attorney firm that you work for or work with in resolving E&O claims for your defense, you might be able to write that into the policy contract when you start it out and say, we want to use XYZ legal team. Can you approve that? And they'll go, yep. Here's an endorsement. It says it right there.
Adam Parks (28:16)
That's interesting. like that one. So you can use a council that actually understands the space and you're able to kind of redirect that to someone who maybe understands your organization and the industry whole. That's interesting. You know, other than the policy itself, what do we want to make sure is not.
Tom York (28:32)
Well, exclusions for FDCPA, TCPA, and FCRA.
Adam Parks (28:34)
Yeah. Okay. Can't can't exclude the core debt collection items. Okay. Yeah, that's that seems reasonable.
Tom York (28:40)
Yeah. I mean, a big one is the TCPA sublimits. You know, there's an argument out there that you don't want to have the high TCPA limit because you don't want the target on your back, which I find is a strange assertion because once an attorney comes in and files suit, I mean, they're not going to stop just because they have a $1 million limit as opposed to a $5 million limit. There's still plenty of money there for them to go after. So, you know, I would always encourage, and granted, you have to weigh these things against premium. It's a balancing act. You know, much risk are we comfortable taking on? How much do we really want to ensure? But all things being equal. Pay attention to the coverage sublimits, especially on, so TCPA for E&O and then a cyber policy, might be something like funds transfer fraud, which, know, not everybody's getting hit with a cyber breach all the time. Sometimes it's maybe someone getting your accounting department to send a $50,000 wire as a remit or something.
Adam Parks (29:44)
social engineering attacks. Yeah, I look at it's a very real threat these days. And that's how a lot of there's, you see it in the news quite frequently. And if you've never read it, The Art of Deception was a book by Kevin Mitnick, where he talks through like how easy it was for him to enact those types of social engineering attacks in the past. So definitely something to Jason, I could tell it's that's a book you've probably seen before. especially coming from the IT side of the world. Well, gentlemen, you're going to be at the RMAI conference here in just a couple of days. Where am I going to see you?
Tom York (30:20)
We've got a booth. I wish I had the booth number right now. I don't. Our backer is big and red and it's like that's why.
Adam Parks (30:27)
Sounds like a plan. Well, looking forward to spending a little bit of time with you guys in person, getting to say hi and visiting Las Vegas. So I think that's going to be a lot of fun as we kind of wrap up here. Any final words for our audience? Any final advice on how we can improve our administrative reviews of our business?
Tom York (30:46)
Yeah, don't be lazy. I know it sucks, but you know, go through the contracts. See where you're spending your money. We'll save you time.
Adam Parks (30:54)
I think that's sound advice for every business, not just debt collection companies.
Jason Davis (30:59)
Yeah. And I guess I'll throw out that, you know, sometimes spending a little bit of money, bringing in, a third party and outsourcing is actually saving money in the long run, right? You reduce the workload, reduce the risk, reduce the stress of your internal employees, by outsourcing, you know, specific functions to, people that do it all day long every day. and you cut your risk. And while you might be increasing your, your spend initially over, you know, however long you do your transitions and all the processes we take over. Now you've got employees freedom. A, they're happier because they don't worry about stuff that 9 times out of 10, they don't care about. Most companies have people doing compliance, licensing, and the people doing it are like, I hate the licensing part. I don't want to do this. This is garbage. It's terrible. And frankly, anybody's had to deal with any of the states that are more of the convoluted, complex, licensing processes with the specific reports on these dates, it's stressful. So, you know, we can handle that, take it off your plate, maybe a little bit of an increase in spend upfront, but in the long run, you know, my opinion and my belief is that you end up saving, whether it's employee stress, know, additional things that they can take on potentially one, you know, an additional employee that you don't need to hire.
Adam Parks (32:19)
I think that's the biggest reality of it is that it saves the time of the current team and the reallocation of their time where they understand your business and they can do a non-administrative task or take on another role potentially, I think opens a lot of opportunity. Great insights. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today. I really do appreciate all of your time. For those of you that are watching, if you have additional questions you'd like to ask Jason, Tom, or myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube and we'll be responding to those. Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, can leave those in the link below or in the comments below. And we will hopefully get these gentlemen back at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry. But gentlemen, see you in a couple of days. Looking forward to it.
Tom York (33:05)
Same here, see you then.
Adam Parks (33:08)
And thank you everybody for watching. We'll see you all again soon.
